Fedor Emelianenko Is Not Top 3 P4P
Posted on December 27, 2010, 11:16 PM by David SaucierWhen we talk Pound for Pound “P4P” it refers to who currently are the best fighters on this planet regardless of weight, and never has a topic been so heavily debated in MMA as who should be ranked where in the P4P discussion. Nothing has been bugging me more than people clinging to one of the greatest fighters from Pride that hasn’t appeared in the UFC Fedor Emelianenko, and blindly ranking him number 1 on the P4P list as a way to keep Pride alive in some way to them, or out of spite towards the UFC. When in fact Fedor is not number 1 nor is he even in the top 3, and when you try to have someone justify this ranking you get called a “Zuffa Zombie”, and that’s their best argument.
When I judge, and rank fighters for the P4P list I have started being more honest with myself and holding everyone to the same standards, which means no special treatment from emotions on how I feel about fighters.
P4P is a ranking that needs to be maintained so coasting off of your past accomplishments will not get you a spot, maybe if it was P4P of all time, but not the current P4P rankings. We don’t see Matt Hughes, Chuck Liddell, Jens Pulver, Royce Gracie, and Ken Shamrock who were all dominant at one point but are a long way from being on the current P4P rankings because they didn’t or couldn’t maintain their spots against legitimate competition from the time they were the best to today.
So when I look at Fedor opponents since Pride went under there is no way I can justify putting him in the elite fighters that reside within my top 3 which are 1.Silva, 2.GSP, and 3.Aldo who are all dominant champions and fighting much more elite competition more consistently. Silva has fought 16 times, 12 times in the UFC since leaving Pride with his only loss being a DQ to Yushin Okami, GSP has fought 9 times since Pride collapsed 8 of those fights were title fights. Aldo has fought 10 times since the Pride days, and has beaten the top FW who are more well rounded fighters in general in dominating fashion literally toying with them he is 18-1. Fedor has fought six times since his last fight in Pride against Mark Hunt in 2006. His first fight being Matt Linland who is a MW, second Hong-Man Choi “The guy who fought Jose Conseco”, his third was against Tim Sylvia who was top ten at the time but went on to get KO in 9 seconds to 47 year old Ray Mercer, his fourth Andrei Alovski a gate keeper at this point and nothing special, his fifth Brett Rodgers was never top 10, and his sixth stopped by Fabrico Werdum being forced to tap out. Now if I showed you this record, and you didn’t know I was talking about Fedor can you honestly say this is a current top 3 P4P fighter?
Let me say this first before you read the next paragraph now I don’t think these two things are directly related but do hold some relation to each other, and that is Fedor, and Tito Ortiz. I already pointed out Fedor’s last 6 fights. Tito Ortiz is on no one’s top 15 of anything. Tito’s last 6 fights are starting at his last fight with Ken Shamrock who he TKO’d, next Ortiz was stopped by a prime Chuck Liddell and current LHW champion at the time, then a draw (because Ortiz had a point deduction) to Rashad Evans a future LHW champion, next fight a decision loss to Lyoto Machida another future LHW champion, next is a split decision loss to Forest Griffin who he had beaten before and Griffin since the first meeting was also the LHW champion at one point, and a decision loss to Matt Hamill 5 out of 6 were champions in their near future and one current champion, and or on the rise as fighters. With only one loss not going to a decision. Now what can these two things have in relation. It’s more of question both fighters were only stopped once. But is it better to be winning against fighters that are irrelevant, or on the decline and some borderline freak shows, or to be losing decisions, and split decision to prime fighters, and fighters on the rise to championship status?
The fact that I can even correlate the two fighters when talking about their competition further strengthens my opinion that Fedor can’t be included in the elite top 3 of the P4P when you compare this to what Silva, GSP, and what Aldo have done. This has nothing to do with the term “Zuffa Zombie” nor does it make you one if you agree with me you don’t have to be a “Pride drone” to acknowledge and recognize the current MMA scene and the talents of all the fighters in our great sport. When you do your rankings take your emotions, and how you feel about organizations and emotions from how you feel about fighters, and hold everyone accountable to the same criteria, and be fair in the way you judge all other fighters. Your top 3 may vary from mine but if you are honest with yourself, then you will find Fedor outside of the top 3 P4P also.
Comments
not only is he not top 3, he ain't top 10. if he'd have been fighting against the top guys and fighting regularly then his loss to werdum wouldn't have pushed him down any further than 1 rank in the heavyweights but werdum was only barely in the top 10 when he lost to him. i'm a huge fedor fan, if he beats silva and then the winner of werdum/overeem he'll be up near the top again but right now all this negotiating business between M-1 and Strikeforce is killing chances of a comeback for him. it will have been nearly 9 months since he last fought if he's back in the cage by february, and that's the best we can hope for.
one criticism of your article though, you shouldn't take into account what happened to arlovski or sylvia in their fights following fighting fedor. instead rate their level of difficulty as opponents by what they had accomplished at the time. sylvia had only recently been the undisputed hw champ ad was winning on and off against other top competition so he was a credible opponent. arlovski was on a 5 fight win streak against the likes of werdum, nelson and rothwell and had only lost in atitle bout to sylvia before that so he too was a decent opponent. i do agree however that fedor fighting hong man choi, lindland and rogers was a joke
@Overhand, I agree, I dont hve him in my top 10 anymore....he just doesnt fight consistently n not to mention the lvl of competition hasnt been that great, true that he KO'd both Sylvia n AA but if u look Sylvia got KO'd in his next fight after to Mercer n AA got KO'd in his next fight also by Rogers, both under like 30 secs so beating them isnt that great and then he had a OK performance against Rogers n then lost to Werdum....Fedor not being number 1 isnt that big of a deal I think, every athlete eventually has to step down, overall Fedor is prolly number 1 MMA fighter to ever fight up till now but as of now he isnt the best
i get the point in the article, but how hypocrite is people when they say Fedor is not worth of top pound for pound fighter for not fighting the considered " top fighters" in his Division.
When Silva last 4 title fights have been Patrick Cote not even in the UFC anymore and got to fight Silva after a Split Decision over Almeida.
not to mention Silva did not finish him.
then Thales Leites another " top contender" who is no longer in the UFC anymore, and also a fighter Silva did not Finish.
Damian Maia another guy coming from a Decision win over a maybe top 25 Dan Miller and a recent KO lost in just 20secs and yet another guy Silva did not Finish.
and Finally his only worthy opponent since Dan Henderson the one and only Chael Sonnen , who just not Dominated him on the ground but also standing , not to mention for 23mins , If Chael would have the most basic submission defense Silva may not even have won.
considering his recent opponents since Pride vanish, i would not dare to say Silva has been fighting better competition than Fedor.
it seems that just because he was fighting in the UFC his opponents are all the sudden legit. not to mention all Fedor's opponents are heavier and bigger than him.
I just dont get the Hypocrisy , im a Fedor fan yes but i dont fool my self ranking him neither #1 p4p or Heavyweight.
Silva is with out a doubt a Great fighter and i mean Great!
but lets dont fool ourselfs Dana White is probably more Bias than most fans.
Well, Silva is not the focus of the article... Fedor is. He even said "Your top 3 may vary from mine."
Silva wouldn't even make your top 50 P4P list if there was one.
@ rigo
and i suppose that theres a better MW in the world then Silva that you know about that know one else does?( Theres alot of UFC MWs that could beat other Brands MW champs IMO.) I dont think that Jacare is but i mean he did beat Matt Lindland thats a hell of a win.... and Lombard he did beat Jay Silva who was cut from the UFC once again that was in the making of a barn burner.... so my point is you saying all that about Silva sounds to me like your trying to prove theres a better MW in the World and that Silva isnt top P4P.
Fedor doesnt fight enough to be proclaimed best P4P and he hasnt fought the Comp most other P4P fighters have to be #1.
Fedors last 7 fights:
Werdum: Lost.....
Brett Rogers: Um id like to say that everyone says the UFC over hypes fighters well Rogers was OVER HYPED and almost GnP Fedor out
Andrei: Was beating him then threw a flying knee he needs rampages "Kimbo speech" " when you feel you need to throw a knee....dont!" and he was cut from the UFC
Sylvia:Cut from the UFC and beat by that "old man" everyone complains about Brock beating.
HONG-MAN CHOI: OMG HES P4P!
Matt Lindland: Um isnt he a middle weight now?
MArk Hunt: really...?
i know, but its an example since most people rank him 1 and then say Fedor is not worthy. its just the best way i could think of to explain how dumb is in some way the logic people use to consider a fighter worth of a place in the top p4p ranks.
i would think fans now days would be more educated in the sport and would not get caught in Dana's trash talks on any fighter outside the UFC.
Understandable. I can see both arguments to be honest, but it seems people have a tendency when the Fedor p4p argument comes up to discredit others place in the p4p ranks, rather that to state their case for Fedor's.
@rocky B, perhaps you should read the article i just wrote about fans such as yourself, you seem to fit the mould of obnoxious bloodstain lane-worshipping meathead i was talking about pretty nicely. if fedor is so great then why not come to the ufc and beat everyone, huh? answer me that. oh and btw, he just lost to a guy you probably wouldn't have even ranked in the top 10 cus he was in the ufc, and he got cut from there. yes i am a frank mir fan, i'm not some glory fan that supports guys who are on winning streaks or champs, i support mir because he's probably the most well-spoken mixed martial artist of all time next to couture, he's a bbj whizz (a discipline i practice rather than just talking bs about stuff i have no clue about) and an intelligent dude. i don't really understand what you're saying in the second part of your post, sounds like you've been smokin' some wacky tobaccy.
and @ rigo, name one top 10 fighter from the mw division that silva hasn't beaten. the reason he fought the likes of cote and leites is because there's simply nobody left for him to fight.
Why would Fedor go to the UFC when the most of the best and most experienced HWs are in Strikeforce? He would be ducking real competition if he left Strikeforce to fight newbs like Lesnar and Carwin.
I agree with the article. I hope Fedor does start making his statement soon. I still have him Top 10 because I can still see areas where he is better than a lot in the Top 10 so it is hard for me to figure out if he is still legit or not. I am not convinced he is a can but I am also not sure if he has what it takes to still hold his spot within Top 5. I have 1. AS 2. Jose aldo 3. Dominick Cruz 4. GSP and all four of those wouldn't surprise me if they were swapped around. I can see how someone could think it was backwards to what I have but AS hasn't lost 1st spot quite yet. We'll see.
Just some facts:
Matt Lindland was a Top 3 Middleweight during that time, and was a game opponent for prime Rampage Jackson at LHW. Rampage then went on capturing the UFC LHW Title.
Andrei Arlovski was a #2 HW when he fought Fedor, not a gatekeeper like u said. He was on a 5-fight winning streak, defeating Roy Nelson, Ben Rothwell and Fabricio Werdum.
Tim Sylvia is a multi-time UFC Heavyweight Champion, who was 3-2 in his last 5 fights. Lost only to Couture via Decision and to Big Nog. This way or another, Fedor finished him in 48 seconds.
Brett Rogers was undefeated 10-0, all KO's. Knocked out Andrei Arlovski in 22 seconds.
Finally, HMC is a multi-time K-1 WGP Finalist, who had a huge size advantage over Fedor. Everyone who understands MMA beyond what's going on inside the ring - knows that NYE fights in Japan are mostly based on entertainment. It's a different culture where Fedor vs. HMC is a great fight for Japanese people... no one really cares if HMC is game opponent or not. Fedor got a lot of money for this fight, entertained Japanese crowd, who unlike the US crowd, simply idolize him. He just gave them back for those PRIDE days, that's it.
So yeah. Fedor is #3 P4P in my list.
Anton Dropping some knowledge. Overhand read this and disect it than rethink your veiws.
Anton, you're the man. You're on my P4P list after that gem of a reply.
lindland: top 3 middleweight i'd disagree with but even so that doesn't make him a top 3 heavyweight
arlovski: as usual i never said that he wasn't a good opponent for fedor you just like putting words in my mouth
sylvia: again, fedor could have been fighting better out there like barnett but he could do worse than the former champ
rogers: here's where i have a problem. rogers beat nobodies and knocked out arlovski at a stage when he was no longer dominant and somewhat washed up
HMC: K1 isn't MMA i don't see how people don't get this, yes you can translate the striking skill into MMA but the stance and frame of mind for striking has to be completely different. and let's be honest here, that fight was just a JMMA freak show between the tall man versus the short man
Hows rodgers different from Carwin then?
carwin went on a 12 fight win streak finishing every single fight in the first round, including wins over gonzaga and mir. rogers beat arlovski, true, but it's not as if fedor dominated him for the entire fight (it was a nice KO he got eventually) and overeem made him look like he'd never trained mma a day in his life.
He is #1 P4P in my list.He doesn't sth the rest don't do.He finishes his fights.The rest should try doing that more often and give him the credit and respect he deserves
He does sth the rest don't do.he finishes his fights in devastating fashion
@samuari weirdo
you cant possibly have a fighter 'who finishes his oppenents' as your pound for pound #1 for that reason alone.
lets take paul daley for example. he finishes his opponents in devistating fashion. why not put him as your #1 pound for pound??? he was in the ufc and fought top notch opponents and went 2-1 (much like fedors 1-1 in sf). finishing both dustin hazlett and martin kampmann is devistating fashion. why is he not p4p #1?
fedor is fighting nobodys out in sf. look at his next fight sure..... big foot silva, who by the way was nearly koed by a lightheavyweight!!!
many fighters in mma finish their opponents, but like fedor, they arnt fighting the best fighters around. they get no recignition as they dont fight the best, but yet, fedor who doesnt fight the best is getting more then enough recignition..... he is getting far more credit and respect that he deserves
Why not put Condit on ur p4p list, out of his 25 wins 24 hve been finishes
Paul Daley is like a fish out of water when you take him to the ground.Fedor on the other hand takes people out at their best positions.Brett Rogers Muay thai coach said unlike many fighters Fedor is very brave because he takes on you at your strongest points and looks for the kill.
1)Outgrappled a prime Nogueira
2)Outstriked a prime Cro Cop
3)Knocked out a Freddie Roach trained Arlovski
4)Knocked out Brett Rogers (who's previous fights ended in KO) with one punch
5)Then got caught going into Fabricio Werdum guard who is a world champion BJJ guy because Werdum had no chance at standing with Fedor. The triangle is Werdum specialty and yet Fedor had to make a mistake before he got caught.
That my friend is the #1 P4P.he can fight with you at whatever position you put him, willing to take calculated risk, yet remain calm and end it.To top it all up his fights are not boring.Another thing just because a fighter is not in the UFC doesnt make him a nobody.If UFC are sure they are best why don't they fight champions of other promotions.presently the SF HW is way better than the UFC.no comparison whatsoever.
that was fedors problem. he takes people to their strength. if he had of kept werdum standing he would have finished him.
st.pierre, aldo, and silva all can fight what ever position they are put in. they can all get out of those situations and get back to the position of dominance. all 3, who are higher then fedor in my p4p.
in my opinion, it takes inteligence for a fighter to reach #1 p4p. and taking an opponent into their element is not the smatest thing to do. and thats what fedor always trys to prove, that he is the best in every area. which will cause his defeats (as it has cost his against werdum).
Um just saying that your main argument was his finishes, Fedor didnt finish Nogueria and had 3 chances to do it and i love how people are "prime" in PRIDE, until they got beat in the UFC then they are old......
Some people don't give Fedor credit for anything. It's a shame really.
you can't compare Fedor to Paul Daley.
@jamz
i was comparing him in the concept that he finishes fights. samuari weirdo claimed that fedor was the best p4p due to him finishing fights. whereas daley also finishes fights. thats where my comparison came from
I love Shogun but his recent wins are against Lyoto, A worn down Liddell and Coleman...how does that secure a spot as #5 P4P? Also Overeem at #9 even though his recent opponents in MMA have been even worst than Fedors....Cains biggest wins are against an Old Nog and an inexperienced Lesnar hes #6
We know what these guys are truely capable of and thats why we rank them where they are, not based on the guys they have fought recently
Also i would not say that Manny Gamburyan( a UFC reject) Cub Swanson and Jonathan Brookins are more well rounded than Aldo
@ griffin
I was gonna sharp you until the last sentence. If those three are more well rounded they would have found a way to beat him.
On my p4p list, Fedor is stil #1.
Why? because what Samurai Weirdo said.
When Fedor finishes his opponent there's no doubt who's best
Total domination. That's what makes him #1.
regards
P4P is an opinion. You can't try and change people's opinion. What might be important to you might not be important to others. And as for P4P, Fedor is a small heavyweight which is important to me when putting him on the list. To me if 2 guys have the exact same record against the exact same opponents and one is smaller, the smaller guy will be ranked higher on the P4P list.. And to be honest.... who isn't a little bias when ranking. Even if you say you aren't, you probably are a litlle. It's human nature.
Pound for pound means to ignore weight.
You miss the point entirely. If fighter A and fighter B have equal records against the same fighters, but fighter A is 20lb lighter there is no arguement you can make to have fighter B ahead in the p4p rankings. Fighting much bigger fighters and winning on a consistent basis does matter when considering p4p rankings. Silva usually enjoys considerable height and reach advantage, Fedor usually is disadvantaged that way.
Regards to ranking fedor right now, it's difficult. Losing a fight whilst others held in similar esteem must mean he cannot rank ahead of them, but at the same time, one as dominant as fedor must be given time to see if Werdum was a blip as serra was to GSP, or if Fedor really is in decline.
I personally hold fedor in high regard on the HW list and p4p list based on his skill set which for a HW is very well rounded, although if you had only seen him against Werdum you could be forgiven for thinking that was BS.
In lowkick's last ranking period I had fedor at number 4 for p4p and number 2 for heavyweight through computerized rankings.
I don't need to write a list of reasons why or reasons to disgree and agree. It is what it is.
same although i still like trying to justify the computer's picks. although i think you use fight magazines rankings if i'm correct? i disagree with a lot of them but at least it's not biased like some of the awful rankings i've seen on other sites
I think Cain will beat Fedor now, though Fedor is still in the game and is definitely in my top 3. You have a point though because Fedor makes impression that he avoids to fight top ranked fighters and leans only upon his old reputation. I'm glad Werdum beat him and canceled his winning streak cause now Fedor has to prove himself against top fighters.
Fedor doesn't have to prove much anymore. Nor did he ever had to prove. It's the media, fans and Dana that want him to prove himself etc. Either case Fedor may not be the p4p currently, i'm fine with that, he's fine with that. It all comes down to him being the great fighter to grace the mma world. I mean when GSP and Silva start losing people are going to cast them down to the pit like they did with Fedor. People should be happy that they actually can see him fight.
I agree raindrop. Fedor never claimed he was the baddest man on the planet like Brock. Alot of Fedor haters are the same idiots who believed DW's lies and hype for his own fighter Brock. Wherever fedor ranks or if he retires tomorrow, he already proven to be the most dominant HW in recent times and it will take a heck of a fighter to equal his win streak.
Also, i think Fedor would beat Anderson, GSP, Jose Aldo. So... funny aint it? I'm just point out the fact that p4p is useless title. Fedor>Anderson>GSP>BJ Penn>Jose Aldo.
Dumbest article I have read by far. This is Fedor we are talking about here. Come on!
I agree they have a couple people posting articles on here that don't know squat.
The main thing is that no matter what whoever says, Fedor doesn't really give a crap. He respects his opponents, he fights, when told to fight, and he won and lost, but kept his class! True athlete, humble and respectful! Have been undefeated for a very long time! I don't really care about this p4p title sh*t, it doesn't make sense to me. I would call Fedor as a true Hall of Famer of MMA! That's what should be discussed, who deserves to be in the hall of fame of MMA. Perhaps, due to his recent loss, Fedor is not number 1 HW, however, we can't compare different organization and say, this or that guy is number 1 if they never fought. And saying that because he beat this guy, he would destroy this guys, is completely false, anyone can be anyone, thus you can't speculate unless they fight each other.
Fighetrs like GSP and Anderson are been owned befor KO'd submited the guy gets one submition loss and he is not top 3.We all now how lucky Werdum was
Were you one of the ones who had Brock top p4p on your rankings a222g? You do raise a couple of points in this article but it also resembles the musings of some of Brocks old nuthugging fans. Wherever fedor ranks is irrelevant. it's only fans opinion at the end of the day. Fedor don't care, even though many current and ex UFC champions regard him as #1, DW calls him a fake a phoney and a farce and us fans are divided on the matter. He really doesn't care as it is a false list at the end of the day as it's impossible to ever have a p4p list and know it's correct. So why bother writing such an extensive article on the matter? Those who are fedor fans will remain fedor fans and until they better skill sets with similar dominance fedor will continue to be considered pretty high on p4p lists by his fans until he starts upon a losing streak, but 1 fight is not a losing streak and his record is still better than most other fighters in mma. next year will decide if it's time for him to drop down the lists in all fairness so don't jump the gun.
Fedor has the skills to be the number 1 once again, he just needs to fight more! There is a lot of good heavyweights in SF, and if he beats couple of them next year including Overeem he will be back!
Say what ever you want about p4p, but do not deny the mans skills!!!
Before june, Fedor was the only fighter on this site that deserved respect..ebsides anyone who was supposed to face him.
yea ebsides anyone huh
Fedor may not be considered p4p greatest in the world to some people and that is there opinion. If you listen to Werdum, Carwin, Overeem, GSP and Cain the UFC champ they say Fedor is the best. I coach football and I validate a coaches poll over the AP poll because coaches know or have coached against the team they voted for in the poll.