Arguing about LowKick's P4P Rankings, on Bj Penn's behalf

Posted on November 2, 2010, 11:16 AM by MMALurker
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Why is BJ Penn neglected on Lowkicks P4P ranking?

Despite having an amazing career, where he has constantly fought the highest competition, BJ Penn is currently in a distant 10th place on LowKick.com Community Pound for Pound Rankings. But why?

Is it because he has recently lost to Frankie Edgar and GSP? I would hope not. They are both arguably top choices for P4P rankings. If he's at their level wouldn't that place him only slightly behind them?

Is it because the other fighters on the list have accomplished more? I would say not. With Credit given to GSP, Silva, Fedor and possibly Lyoto and Rua), Penn has had one of the more impressive careers in MMA history. 15-7 with losses only to highest level of competition. 2000 BBJ champion. Held multiple UFC championship belts.

Penn has fought fairly successfully in many different weight divisions. Isnt that at essence what P4P is? Despite his weight, his skill-set has catapulted him to fight the highest level competition over a span of 8 years. I'd say his recent lose to Edgar isn't so much a detriment to Penn but a testament Edgars skill.

Let's look at who is above him:

GSP, Silva, Fedor, Aldo, M Rua, Velasquez, Edgar, Overeem, Machida: All certainly impressive fighters. GSP, Silva, and Fedor have such an impressive records, so it's safe to call them better. Edgars beat Penn twice so he's safe too. Now Machida did beat Penn but Penn was a slight disadvantage. Fight at 191 lbs to Machida's 220 lbs. That's not quite a P4P victory. I guess I could concede that because Rua beat Machida and Machida beat Penn that they deserve to be above him. Though I don't think that's an airtight case.

This leaves us with Aldo, Velasquez, and Overeem. Firstly Aldo has had an impressive run as champion and had been fighting for 5 years. I think Aldo might have an edge on Penn because of his youth level of energy and similar quick style to Edgar. But then again, Featherweight is not such a deep division. A fight between these two might be quite close. With Overeem it's an interesting debate as he's had a long career but with different levels of success. Overeem showed impressive striking but I would account some of that to his impressive physique. Personally, I think Penn is a much more rounded fighter with highest level MMA strategy and near flawless BJJ. Between these two I guess it comes down to opinion. I don't really think there's enough to show any huge advantage to Overeem.

Finally, Cain Velaquez. Thinking about Cain on the P4P ranking is what sparked me to write this. Cain's career is quite young. He has 9 fights over 4 years. With the real competition only coming in the past 2 years. He's been impressive but is it really enough to say he's so much better than other fighters with longer careers? Personally, I don't think so. At least in the case of Penn. I don't think Cain shows a skill set that would go well against Penn veteran skills. But that just my opinion, as we'll never see these two fight on a level playing field. Let's let Cain defend his title a few times before calling him a top P4P fighter.

In closing I ask you to reevaluate BJ Penns ranking on your P4P list. Think of his career, of impressive victories over Hughes, Sherk, Sanchez and others. Winning and defending the championship at different weight classes. Isn't it to soon to say Penn is no longer one of the most skilled fighters in MMA?


Comments

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  • pound4pound
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    Well MMA Math does not work, it is just not that simple, I think it is because of both of his performance against Edgar, you could probably think well first time he did not know what was coming to him but the second time he should have been ready for that, in the past Bj had issues with focusing in training, and I think he is lacking that motivation again, He has prove his worth in the past, but we are ranking their current satus, if we were to evaluate the p4p in MMA history he would be top 5 in my eyes maybe even top 3 but not right now, he is one of the best ever but he did not showed that against Edgar.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • BigNog22
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    he should probably be in the place of ubereem, cause he has no business beeing in the P4P ranking.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • japanegro23
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    Haha damn I'm down with that.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • Stiks
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    I agree. I don't think beating Brett Rogers in the past few years and fighting in a non MMA promotion qualifies him for P4P. Yes he looks impressive. Yes he has P4P potential; however, I don't think he has earned his place right now.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • Xaikira
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    I'm a huge Penn fan but your only as good as your last fight and BJ's last 2 fights were pretty bad.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • Ninja
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    Fedor's last fight was pretty bad, so was Silva's and also Machida yet they are all in the top ten

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    Actually Fedor was whoopin his ass until he went in for the finish and got caught, you lost me there

    Reply 4 years ago
  • Ninja
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    No man if you watch the fight again Werdum became off balanced and fell, he never got knocked down by a punch thats why he was able to lock that sub on so quickly because he was fully conscious

    Reply 4 years ago
  • MMALurker
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    I gotta say I totally disagree with the only as good as your last fight mentality. (I say that with no regards to penns situation.)



    Theres to many factors to call a fighter bad based on one fight. It goes the same the other way around. I a guy came outta nowhere and beat fedor and thats his only fight that wouldnt make him amazing and my eyes. I guys gotta be good and tested.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • MMALurker
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    spelling fail

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    P4P is constantly evolving and BJ hasnt won enough to stay on top, if you want to say legend over all, fine but not P4P as of right now, maybe later if he starts to dominate once again.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • taz
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    i think it is more to do with he has lost his last two fights so people are thinking about that more than his whole career. when ever a champion or a top contender loses people are quick to bash him and say he has lost it. I don't pay any attention to rankings, i just follow the fighters i like to watch.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • japanegro23
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    Nice view. Its just to fuel talk though. Its interesting to see what everyone thinks.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • movich
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    all time = he's in my top 5 p4p



    currently = no. he has to prove to me again against hughes and maybe even 1 more.



    here's a question to y'all: how the ef was brock lesnar on this list but jon fitch isn't?

    Reply 4 years ago
  • movich
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    i'm not saying i disagree with this either, but i think it's funny that cain ranks higher than fedor on the HW list, and BJ ranks 10th on the WW list, and yet fedor is higher than Cain on the p4p and BJ is still on the (current) p4p top 10, over ever other ww aside from gee es pea

    Reply 4 years ago
  • YouKnow
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    As far as Cain vs fedar goes, Cain fights top comp., fedar does not and refuses 2 2 this day. Sorry fedar fans thats the truth.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • movich
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    i love the comment.



    i'd actually be very interested in that fight, as would most.



    tough to say. fedor appears amazing but like p4p, it's difficult to say until you actually see how he stacks up

    Reply 4 years ago
  • YouKnow
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    fedar vs Cain would be a easy fight for Cain. I would love to see it, then it would put these wanna be fedar fans to sleep!

    Reply 4 years ago
  • azzkika
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    Fedor may be in decline and Cain is certainly one of the best HW's in the world right now and a tough match for fedor included, but your derision of the greatest ever HW and your obvious gullible devouring of DW's 'UFC HW's are best' mantra is pathetic. Lets see Cain go the next 6 or 7 years unbeaten shall we?

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    I personally dont think anyone in the HW division can stack up to the talent in LHW. Why is everyone obsessed with the slowest division there is and all the bullcrap hype your drinking

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    Oh yea, Fedar with an A cute

    Reply 4 years ago
  • YouKnow
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    @UrHype.

    It took u 16 hours to figure that 1 out huh?

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    No I just dont notice much you type

    Reply 4 years ago
  • azzkika
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    Have a closer look at Cains resume fool.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • MMALurker
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    Cains resumes is a few sentences long

    Reply 4 years ago
  • azzkika
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    what an ingnorant statement. You really are the biggest idiot on lowkick and there's a few.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • MMALurker
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    This why I think HWs are at a disadvantage when talked about in P4P. Alot of their power comes form physics of their size. If they lose the size or other fighters gain it they lose their main advantage

    Reply 4 years ago
  • YouKnow
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    he has to prove what he was the longest LW champ ever?

    I'm corn fused

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    More like cornholed

    Reply 4 years ago
  • 1wayticket
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    MAn P4p is Silly ... no way to know 100% and its all SPECULATION. its my opinion VS yours. i can make a case for or Against BJ...same for every single fighter on the p4p list.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • MMALurker
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    Theres a difference between saying you can make a case and making one.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • MMALurker
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    The guy doesnt contribute anything with his comment. If he thinks P4P is silly then maybe he shouldnt be reading articles about P4P.



    I would think everyone here knows p4p is speculation and thats why im talking about it.



    If he wants to comment he should actually say something. rather then just say he could say something. I mean come on....

    Reply 4 years ago
  • movich
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    you can make a case though.



    aside from the lw division (and not even that anymore), he hasn't done much in the other weight classes



    what is he, 1-3 at ww?

    i know 2 losses to gsp and 1 to matt hughes, the two greatest ww's of all time, but still



    and yeah, major props for fighting and hanging in there with machida, but a loss is a loss



    and i know no one can say for sure, but you said penn against shogun was a "tossup" more or less

    c'mon man. get real.



    all that said, i still love a motivated bj and can't wait for his fight against hughes. 2 of my all time faves and i'm psyched to see who brings it. hughes has been stepping up lately and if penn turned things around, it's gonna be a brawl.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • bluntsandbeers
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    people need to remember this a pound for pound list, not a who beat who list. and bj penn is a great pound for pound fighter. undersized welterweight champion, and the best lightweight that has ever lived. his loses are to other great pound for pound fighters. people forget the greatness of fighters to quickly in this sport. great article

    Reply 4 years ago
  • duder113
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    if you want an all time ranking then make it all time, for now I'll be ranking on the present.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • azzkika
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    Couldn't agree more. Nice article. I don't understand when someone like BJ gets beat they automatically assume he was bad. I agree also it was because of how good Edgar has become rather than how bad BJ has become. Also agree with the resume thing. No one in MMA has fought consistently at the highest level possible like he has. Losses to GSP and Machida carry no shame. If anything aside from GSP II he acquitted himself very well, which if anything elevates him beyond what he could be just fighting in the LW division.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • movich
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    i'm not taking away from edgar's skill, but bj looked lackluster and should've taken both fights to the ground



    crying about "greasing" isn't a very honorable way to lose either

    Reply 4 years ago
  • japanegro23
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    Damn lets not go there haha.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • Knight_vision
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    BJ has bags of talent but u got to use that talent with traning and tactics think number 10 spot is right

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    Sorry but I have to..."Leave BJ ALONEEEEEEEE" hahaha

    Reply 4 years ago
  • THEGREEKWARRIOR7
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    THE REASON IS SIMPLE! There isn't enough friggin space on the list! You have heavyweights, middleweights...etc. And in each class there are arguably 2 or 3 top picks for Best P4P.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • movich
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    hw - only fedor and cain. potentially jds in time.

    lhw - only shogun and machida. i could see an argument for rashad

    mw - silva obv. no one else yet. vitor belfort all time maybe, but it's tough to say at mw.

    ww - only gsp and fitch

    lw - penn all time. edgar currently. potentially gray maynard in time.

    fw - aldo. no doubt.

    bw - cruz perhaps?

    Reply 4 years ago
  • azzkika
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    Jones will soon be in the p4p arguement once he destroys bader.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • movich
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    i don't doubt jones' talent, but i'm not gonna rank him #4 before he's even fought at top 10 guy.



    bader will be his first "true" test

    then after that, i'd like to see him get either rampage (assuming lyoto wins) or rashad (assuming he loses)



    ha, i'd say forrest or rich but i don't want to see either of those guys get another loss

    Reply 4 years ago
  • azzkika
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    I agree, but he will soon be in everyone's p4p rankings if he fulfils the promise shown so far. Can't wait to see him against the Machida's and Rua's of the division. Not sure he will clear it out, as there's some awesome fighters there, but he will be top 2 or 3 at least IMO.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • Manwitoutfear
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    BJ Penn is the "old guard." He'll be a legend in the sport (no doubt) but his time is just about up. Guys like Edgar, Aldo and Maynard are the future of the sport at LW; before we know it...we'll be talking about newer fighters.



    Let's face it...we like Penn because he has a voice like a girl, but he would kick our asses if we told him he did. And he KOs guys that talk crap about him.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • taz
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    penn will stay at the top of the LW division for a while longer, i'm not sure if he will be champ again, but i wouldn't be surprised if he did get it again

    Reply 4 years ago
  • UrHype
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    The kids they show fighting on tapout are the P4P best lol

    Reply 4 years ago
  • saltino89
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    ok Penn lost to Frankie that lost to maynard and beat Matt Veach Sean Sherk and Hermes Franca to get a title shot...Penn is a Legend but losing to Edgar twice knocks him out...Penn doesnt look like a P4P fighter anymore

    Reply 4 years ago
  • TheEnforcer
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    what the hell, why is'nt , mark coleman, Don Frye, Dan Servern, in the top 10 P4P, JESUS ya go into a coma for a little while and when you wake up everything has changed? whats up with that

    Reply 4 years ago
  • dray12
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    I wish their was a hilarious button for that one.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • dray12
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    I'm not really talking p4p here, but when I think best and most pure/true MMA fighters, I think Fedor, Bj and Shogun. Out of all the top guys, they are the best examples of fighters that go into the ring and just scrap, yet they are dangerous at all times and in all positions. Fight starts standing so they bang at first, eventually shit ends up on the ground and they mix it up down there. Most importantly, they always try to finish cause I don't care what anyone says finishing does matter, this is fighting, even though it is a sport. When a fight goes to a decision its almost like in a team sport when one team dominates but it ends in a tie. Bottom line they didn't capitalize on their chances and come out with a win.

    Reply 4 years ago
  • dray12
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    Aldo's a stud too, but I still think he has alot to prove, def top p4p right now tho. Machida is still a boss too and GSP even though gameplanning is his biggest strength I just want to see him fight dudes, PLEASE KO KOS!

    Reply 4 years ago