Legendary Match Ups
Posted on May 14, 2011, 01:57 PM by doomsdayapexJust as there was the great Masahiko Kimura (Judo) vs Helio Gracie (GJJ) match up that was watched by millions from around the world, I am left pondering what if two relatively unknown (to casual fans) legends in Gene LeBell and Gokor Chivichyan fought Rickson and Royce in a sanctioned MMA or grappling bout. Who would win?
Although I am no fan of the Gracie clan, the Gracie name is synonymous to world class grappling. A fight/grappling card that features both Royce and Rickson facing off against Gokor and Gene is a dream of mine that I wish had come true.
Now before moving forward, it is rumored by a few in the martial arts community that Rickson declined a fight with Gokor on multiple occasions with reasons still unknown.
Gene LeBell vs. Rickson Gracie
Gokor Chivichyan vs. Royce Gracie
If these MMA/grappling bouts were declared, who would you pick, and why?
For those who do not know the names Gene LeBell and Gokor Chivichyan, and what they've accomplish, I will provide a short biography below:
Gokor Chivichyan
Gokor was born in Soviet Armenia in 1963 and holds a 9th degree black belt in Judo, 6th degree black belt in Jujutsu and a 6th degree black belt in Combat Sambo. During his childhood and early teenage years, Gokor won junior national titles in Judo, Sambo and Wrestling. He left Armenia at the age of 17 and relocated to Los Angeles, and began to train under "Judo" Gene LeBell. Through the 1980's and early 1990's, Gokor spent most of his time traveling and competing in Vale Tudo, Bare Knuckle, Judo, Sambo, Submission Wrestling, Grappling, Mixed Martial Arts-like bouts throughout countries such as Mexico, Thailand and Japan, and places within the Soviet Union and Europe. It is said he amassed a record with over 400 victories during this time, losing not once (similar to Rickson's claim). Notable students that train under Gokor are Karo Parisyan and Manvel Gamburyan.
'Judo' Gene LeBell
Gene LeBell was born in 1932 in Los Angeles, and holds a 10th degree black belt (red belt rank) in Judo and a 9th degree black belt in Jujutsu. Along with Judo and Jujutsu, Gene has also trained in Boxing, Catch-Wrestling and Kyokushin Karate. In addition to martial arts, he also dubbed in professional wrestling and stunt work. Gene obtained the nickname 'Judo' (along with 'The Toughest Man Alive' and 'The Grandfather of Grappling') due to his accomplishments in the art of Judo -- winning many titles and tournaments. LeBell is recognized as one of the first Mixed Martial Artists (featured, as well, in the first televised MMA bout in the United States). Some of LeBell's notable students have been Bruce Lee, Roddy Piper, Chuck Norris, Ed Parker, Gokor Chivichyan, Bob Wall, Mando Guerrero and Benny Urquidez.
- 1. Gene LeBell
- 2. Gokor Chivichyan
- 3. Rickson Gracie
- 4. Royce Gracie
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FANS POSTS
Comments
how can someone be a 9th degree black belt in Judo?
whats the difference from a 3rd degree from a 7th from a 9th? lol
anyway it seems ranks are given quite easy this days
i cannot say anything about this 2 guys because i really dont know much about them , but in MMA it seems that anybody can be a Black Belt in BJJ
an example is Randy Couture who's Jiu Jitsu is just basic compared to other black belts in bjj .
anyway fighters with those ranks in judo and bjj would be something worth watching for sure.
The answer to that is simple. Time, skill and accomplishments.
Each Dan (rank) or degree is a testament, and speaks about a practitioner's dedication to the art.
These ranks are not easy to receive. In fact, Gene LeBell was just recently awarded the 10th dan just a few years ago after a life time in Judo.
Trust me, both Gokor and Gene are not just basic when it comes to grappling. These guys are supernatural.
ill take the guy who trained chuck norris
Gene Lebell would destroy all of the above in his prime
I agree as well.
I know it's hard to claim such a thing considering I'm foremost a Judoka above a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner, and that I despise Royce and Rickson, but it's hard to argue that.
Gene's Judo and Catch-Wrestling skills were scary good. I don't think Rickson could have defended against the takedown. I just see LeBell just overpowering Rickson easily and then submitting him.
It's no wonder why Rickson never called out Gene, but he did find time to call him an 'old man'. Shame we will never get to find out...
Also, LeBell trained in the era when Judokas actually trained like warriors, and 'olympic' rules had yet to water down the sport.
The modern Judokas are just a hallow vessel of what they use to be. Nowadays, it seems like the Jiu-Jitsu practitioners have the edge.
yeah i was trained by Raul Porrata who is a long time pupil of Gene Lebell. when you learn Judo before Jiu jitsu its just a way different approach to fighting... in my opinion alot more aggressive and effective.
Raul also trained with Gokor, he highly touts that Gene LeBell is the best there ever was
I agree, Gene is perhaps the best grappler that ever lived.
Wow, that's awesome. It's an honor to come from such a lineage. I hear Raul is a ref nowadays.
Anywho, it is my dream to meet Gene and learn from him directly, along with Gokor and David Camarillo.
Exactly, most BJJ practitioners are absolutely horrid when coming to the takedown. Take for instance Minotauro Nogueira, incredible grappler but awful at takedown aspect of the game. He would have been a completely different fighter if he would had great Judo skills. He's a black belt in Judo, but he's stated in the past that he's not a very good black belt.
Judokas have always dominated Jiu-Jitsu practitioners in competition up until the late 90's. I just can't fathom why they changed the rules, it has literally killed our best and most talented in the modern era.
oddly enough big nog is a black belt in judo and trained judo long before he ever trained bjj many other bjj artist train judo too in the case of brazzilians they usaully claim bjj first out of a sense of national pride. technically bjj is really brazilian judo not ju jitsu as the man that trianed helio was a judoka
Exactly, the sad fact is there are some casual fans who claim BJJ came before Judo, and that both styles are nothing alike.
'The Count' taught Judo to Helio and his older brothers... how did BJJ not come from the roots of Judo? *sighs* What can you do?
Yea, I think Nogueira was just too slow and possessed very little athleticism for him to execute swift takedowns.
It's funny, 16 votes for Rickson with no one explaining why, but then again -- Gracie fans are some of the most biased fans in the world.
Obviously because he's undefeated!!! Duh....
Lol, Helio stated that Rickson's record might have been exaggerated. Rickson includes street fights with untrained thugs as victories.
rickson claimed sparring matches and there are at least two documented cases in which he lost. rickson is a liar whose own father has chastised and even threatend to disown him for his outrageous claims
Agreed, Rickson (along with Royce on some occasions) is a complete and utter liar. Either the guy is delusional or incredibly arrogant.
Yea, I heard one account where he was slammed through a table and knocked out cold at a local bar near the beach back in the summer of 1989.
But there's fans who actually believe he was invincible. Yet, he turned down fights with Gokor, Benny "The Jet", Sakuraba, Yoshida, etc.
I think we forget something here. If we put these guys inside a contemporary MMA bout they will have no gi. It's a major aspect in either bjj or judo. So it's really hard to say whom would win, especially when you start throwing in the striking game. But i'd still pick Gene.