Should fighters be allowed to turn down fights?
Posted on November 3, 2012, 01:49 AM by Andreas HaleShogun Rua turned down a fight with Glover Texieria. Forrest Griffin wouldn't fight Vitor Belfort. Jon Jones said no to Chael Sonnen; only to have to fight him next April. Matt Mitrione declined a fight with Daniel Cormier. Anderson Silva has no desire to fight Jon Jones.
And the list goes on and on.
It's become rather interesting that fighters have become a lot more picky about who they fight. Once upon a time, whatever Joe Silva and Dana White said, went. Matches were made, fights were had and it was very rare for a fighter to turn down a fight. Today is a different story.
What has separated boxing from MMA is the thought that the best fights would be made no matter what. In boxing, oftentimes the biggest fights are bypassed because one fighter "isn't ready" and needs a few more cream puffs to fatten up the record. A big step up in a challenge could result in a loss and many boxers aren't ready for the devastating blow it could have on their career. MMA was thought to be different.
In a sense, that's what made the sport special. You'd have the best fighters facing one another without hand picking one another to keep their pristine records intact. It made for pleased fans and powerless fighters who had to wait for the UFC brass to determine their fate. Fighters today aren't the same "I'll take anybody on at anytime" fighters they once were. Perhaps because they need to look out for their best interests.
But is that what we want?
Should Jon Jones have fought Chael Sonnen? Perhaps the only reason he shouldn't have had to do with him not being prepared. That's arguably excusable. But when Shogun Rua says that he's not fighting Glover Texieria for no other reason than he doesn't want to, what precedence does that set for the UFC? Why wouldn't Matt Matrione go to Strikeforce to take on Daniel Cormier? To protect his record? Is it the whole "high risk, low reward" concept? Some fighters will pass up on a fight because the opponent doesn't have the "name." But in a sport that prides itself on the actual sport rather than the fighters, who cares about protecting their record? All we want to see is good fights.
But maybe the fighters should have a say in who they fight. Considering that they don't control the fight purses that their boxing counterparts have, in order to maintain a career and be financially stable, a fighter has to be smart and make their decisions accordingly. Anderson Silva's career could end if he were to face Jon Jones with Jones still evolving and Silva being more than ten years his senior. The luster surrounding Silva would be gone and he faces the possibility of being hurt. Knowing that, Silva opting not to face Jones could be the best thing for his career, especially if he's considering defending his middleweight title a few more times before his career ends.
Ultimately, there is no right or wrong answer as to whether or not fighters should be able to select who they won't fight.
What are your thoughts?
Comments
exactly, this doesnt need a detailed article to explain something that has been in combat sports since the beginning of time
NO if you are the champion
otherwise do as you want but don't be a wimp if you don't get a title shot
Every fighter is a private contractor and needs to look out for there best interest so they have the right to turn down fights, as much as it sucks for us fans, I think their should be a clause in every contract though if you become champion you are not allowed to turn down a fight unless certain conditions failed to be met, etc Jones and Sonnen not enough prep time
just cause someone wants the fight they dont get.... but if there is a contender meaning a guy who can make it a fight and has respect from other fighters as of being a good fighter and the company you WORK for says hey this is a good fight you need to fight him ....Champ should be up for all comers you will here a fighter say any place any time!! and I do think leap frogging is bullshit (Chael) but if the top 2-3
contenders are busy or hurt then a its going to happen damn it.... shit.. he got lucky... but to be Champ at 100% again should be able to take all comers thats why he or she is champ.. the qoute "" ANY PLACE ANY TIME"" ur the champ should be able to beat anyone as long as champ is 0 if Jones would of said Chael doesnt deserve a shot yet he should have at least one fight in my division ...."COOL"" I understand that but to say short notice and he was healthy ..sorry lost respect in my book... buy who am I ...just a fan
I agree. I would add there should be a requirement of a contender to a belt being established as a contender first so that I myaself acnnot be put in the cage against Jones. Any contender should not be able to be rejected. I think also a fighter should always have a right to not fight but at some cost to their status and ranking.
i think not if they are in your weight class and are a legit contender..otherwise, suppose so.
NO,because then we're paying and watching fights we don't want to see.
Here's a unique solution, if you don't like the match-up, don't watch it...
There is no straight forward answer to this. In my opinion the fighters should not be allowed to turn down a fight as long as the opponent is in the same weight category. Therefore, Forest, Shogun etc don't really have an excuse.
However, you cannot force a fighter to fight an opponent bigger than him. I believe in all super fights the smaller fighter will always have the disadvantage of size, reach and even strength.
Hypothetically speaking, what if GSP beats Silva? Will it be fair to make GSP fight Jones next? if not, then Silva and Jones story is not very different.
Having said that, yes, I want Silva and Jones to fight more than Silva and GSP.
it not like this is new remember how long it took for tito to accept a fight with chuck and wandy and shogun refused to fight each other although they were both clearly the #1 & 2 guys in a division that didnt have much to offer either fighter
Well a champion shouldn't be allowed to pick his fights but of course he can turn down a fight with good reasons. It isn't like Shogun fought someone else around the same time Glover fought now so Shogun prob just wanted the time off.
I agree, however there was also a time when there was four cards a year and that was it. Fighters opportunities to fight were far and few in between so nobody was going to miss the chance to fight. Nowadays a fighter can fight around 3-4 times a year if they stay healthy. Personally as a long standing fan of the UFC, the draw was and still is the best fights happening with the best fighters, that does seem to be fading away though
Maybe if there were consiquences like if your not a champ an you turn a fight the fans vote your next fight,maybe then wed all get what we wanted.
Any fighter who wants in the ufc bad enough will take whatever fight is offered, just like in the ultimate fighter. they will do anything to please the boss. i think the majority of rostered fighters fall into this category. they don't get much say in the fights that are offered if they want to hang around long. You can't keep declining fights and expect the promotion to support you.
The UFC is a business and entertainment more than its a true sport, and the fighters are acting no differently. They fight for money, prestige. Once a guy gets a name as a fighter they deserve better contracts, after all they are the ones putting their health on the line for uncle dana's billion dollar business.
This is all about PPV revenue.. While there is regulation for athletics commissions and drugs, there is no regulation for rankings or title shot.
Dana puts on fights that sell.
tournaments, like in PRIDE.... Hell, bring back the soccer kicks, stomps etc etc. This UFC nancy pancy version of The Sport MMA sucks.
If there the same weight class then NO, you fight who your told to fight,
really, silva and jones shouldn't even be on that list because silva is a middleweight. this isn't the old days where you just fight anyone. and besides silva isn't the only one with no desire for that fight. jones isn't exactly going out of his way for it either
Pure and simple: some fighters grow to a point where the organization needs them more than the other way around so they start to control their desteny a lot more..... This is a beautiful thing that happens thru hard work and talent.... This can not be avoided and is a fact of life.... That is the ultimate goal for all professionals.
My 2 Cents:
How about this, fighters are always required to be in shape and camps are cut to six weeks. A fighter could still turn down a fight, but he'd have less (legitimate) cause.
Being in shape / cutting weight is often cited as a reason to decline a fight. The UFC could simply require their fighters to one, always have their cardio up to par and to be within 10 - 15 pounds of weigh-in weight. An interesting side-benefit (if you choose to look at it this way) would be the jostling that would go on in the divisions. Fighters that used to cut a great deal of weight to fight in a smaller weight division would have to do a whole new calculus, in terms of their careers. It could well make for some match-ups that we might otherwise, not see.
Cutting camps down to six weeks would make it harder for "Machida" argument of, I didn't have enough time. Does a guy, that caliber of LM, coming off of a stunning victory over a tough fighter such as Ryan Bader, really need twelve weeks? I personally don't think so. These are talented, well trained fighters who have been training for years and many cases decades. Six weeks or even four weeks (in Machida's case) should be / have been (more than) enough time to prepare for a fight. I'd also make the argument that this should help cut down on fighter injuries and subsequently, the cancellation of fights or entire cards, as a result of injuries. Simply put, are we losing fights because they are camping too long? As they used to tell you while you were cramming for exams at school, if you don't know it now you never will. Put the books away, relax and take the exam. You'll probably do better.
With these two adjustments we'd probably see more fights and less fights turned down, lest a fighter get a reputation of ducking fights.
so who is going to supplement these lower tier fighters income so they can always be in the gym, rather than their other jobs
Well, according to the laws of economics and survival of the fittest, I guess no one, but then again, no one is supplementing them, now. At least not to the best of my knowledge.
If a fighter is hungry enough and wants to be in the UFC and make money, then regardless of weight and camp time, he (or she, in the future) will ensure that they are @ weight and in shape.
Regardless of job demands or whether or not you're training full-time or not, there really is no reason for a fighter's "walk-around" weight being so far off from weigh-in weight and there's no reason why they can't maintain a 3 round cardio conditioning program. This is, after all, what they say they want to do for a living. To me maintaining weight and conditioning should be a given, not a hope or a request.
IMO, at any rate.
Right now the lower tier guys are supplementing them selves while squeezing in training, unless they come from a fortunate background, its a hard road i agree. It really all comes down to dedication.
Everything in life comes down to dedication. Everything. You have hit the nail on the head Mr. Saucier. :-)
dedication and consistency
Good topic for an article, but it seems a little nostalgic to the "good old days".
Fighters used to turn down fights. Tito didn't want to fight Chuck for a long time. Maybe it's happening more, but that could be because the UFC is five times the size it used to be and has a ton more events.
More fights mean that there's more everything, including fighters saying no. And if there was only a few events a year, you#d have to wait a lot longer for the next fight.
Young or inexperienced fighters should be able to turn down a fight. And I don't think anyone should be made to fight outside their weight class.
But if you aren't a rookie and there's someone in your weight class the UFC wants you to fight, you can argue about the timing, but should take the match. This is even more true if you're the champ.
The Spider is a special case. If the UFC wants him to fight Jones, he could argue that it should be at 185, which would never happen. Or at least at a catch weight.
Although he obviously can fight at 205, it still gives Jones an advantage. The thing is, even if Silva has every right to turn down the match, not fighting JJ may tarnish his claim to be the GOAT.
Not right away, obviously, but if Silva does retire without fighting Bones, and JJ goes on to have a comparable career, eventually people will argue Jones is the GOAT.
Who the "greatest of all time" is has changed over the years, but if Silva does beat Jones, it's his forever.
To put it another way, would a Jedi say no to fighting Jones?
If you are a champion your duty is to fight the top contender of your given weight class. But if you ever reach Silva status where you have cleaned up the division than you should be able to pick your Super-Fights.
I have been a huge fan of combat sports for most of my life. I have to say I have lost a lot of interest in the UFC because of the whole I dont want to fight that guy or this guy stuff. I believe if you are going to live your life as a fighter then do what you are paid to do FIGHT!!! I thought it was always all about being the best but not anymore. I believe that the UFC is hurting mma by not making their fighters fight. I honestly am starting to pay attention to the smaller organizations because them guys are still hungery and fight with everything they have. I wish everyone would stop worrying about how many followers people have on twitter and be what they say they are a FIGHTER!!!
the champions are the only one who shouldn't be allowed to turn fights down, with the exception of being injured they should be allowed to postpone the fight but not avoid it
that wuy they keep fighting can's
they dont wana fight each other is ok if they fight Bonner, Belfort or Sonnen.Belfort was washed up years ago and Sonnen lost
It doesn't matter what combat sport it is, you never want to get in the ring if your not 100% sure you can win. Fighters should have the option to turn down fights to protect them selves (Jones vs Silva).
Fighters should not have the option to turn down a fight because they want a different opponent. Shut up and fight, and the UFC will reward you (Sonnen vs Jones). Furthermore, fighters have X years in the UFC before they cant compete anymore. Consequently, they should be trying to get as many fights as possible within that time frame.
Yes Fighters should be able to choose their own fight..However If they are offered a fight and they declined then they will lose their spot in the line of challengers. If your the Champion you should be strip of your belt being a champion means you take on ALL challengers.
contenders and champions should not be allowed to turn down fights..
up and comings & prospects should be able to..
consideration would be not enough time for preparation..
theres too many aspects of this subject to be considered...
I think that if they want to force fighters to take fights, they need to have a definite official ranking system. Fighters turn down fights for all sorts of reasons, but it generally comes down to a "risk-reward" comparison. They don't want to fight other fighters that are a dangerous match-up and offer them little with a victory. It's like people not wanting to fight Glover Texeira right now. The people on top know he's a legit threat, but he doesn't have the name yet to advance their careers if they beat him. It's a lose-lose scenario.
I think it should be built into the contracts. An official ranking system, and they agree that they must accept any match-up offered with a fighter ranked within 2 places of themselves. Further separation is possible, but the higher ranked fighter gets a monetary bonus for accepting a fight unlikely to advance their ranking. If they have people they specifically won't fight, deal with all of that when the contract is signed, so matchmakers aren't blindsided. Try to keep everyone able to look out for their careers and still making money.
If you, as the champion, turn down a fight with anyone, you should have your belt stripped, period. The champion should be considered the best, bar none, so he should be able to take on anyone in his weight class. This he's my friend stuff is pure bull. I also think that if a champion sustains an injury that takes more than 6 months to heal, the next two contenders in line fight for the real title. The former champ can come back and contest for the title when he's recuperated, but he comes in as the contender, not the champ.
I agree with JTalbain that everything should be written into contracts. If you won't fight say, Glover Texiera, you have to have that agreed upon ahead of time, otherwise, you're contract is canceled and you're booted from the organization. I hate to pay for PPV's when I know that say, Rua could've been fighting Glover, but refused and got an easier fight. His win then, if he does win, to me, becomes insignificant and I lose all respect for them as a great fighter, no matter what they've previously done. Doesn't matter.