*UPDATED* Matt Mitrione Suspended for Saying Fallon Fox Is A Sociopathic Freak

Posted on April 8, 2013, 04:14 PM by Rory Kernaghan
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Matt Mitrione saved himself from the chopping block with his knockout win over Phil de Fries at UFC On Fuel, this past weekend. The fight, which lasted 19 seconds, couldn't have gone better fro Mitrione as he didn't even break a sweat.

Ariel Helwani was on hand to talk to 'Meathead' about the win and also his feelings towards Fallon Fox. Check out what Mitrione had to say via MMAFighting:

"She's not a he. He's a he," he said. "He's chromosomally a man. He had a gender change, not a sex change. He's still a man. He was a man for 31 years. Thirty-one years. That's a couple years younger than I am. He's a man. Six years of taking performance de-hancing drugs, you think is going to change all that? That's ridiculous."

The Fox saga has been quite well documented as of late, mainly due to the amount of negative reactions by seemingly everyone. Mitrione continued:

"That is a lying, sick, sociopathic, disgusting freak," he continued. "And I mean that. Because you lied on your license to beat up women. That's disgusting. You should be embarrassed yourself. And the fact that Florida licensed him because California licensed him or whoever the hell did it, it's an embarrassment to us as fighters, as a sport, and we all should protest that. The woman that's fighting him, props to you. I hope you beat his ass, and I hope he gets blackballed and never fights again, because that's disgusting and I'm appalled by that."

Mitrione has taken a stance not unlike Joe Rogan's, the stand up comic and UFC commentator had an extreme adversity to the idea of a transgender male (or female?) beating up on women.

With Fox's recent clearing of all wrong doing, after an inquisition in to the case, she will be cleared to fight against women again. Do you think that is kosher? Should it be allowed? I wouldn't like to see my sister in the cage with Fox, but then I wouldn't like to see her in there with Cyborg. So there's that......

Check out Mitrione's interview with Ariel Helwani, also featuring Melvin Guillard and Conor McGregor, below and stay tuned to Lowkick!

*UPDATE* Mitrione has been suspended by the UFC for an undisclosed period of time for violating the promotion's Code of Conduct with his comments. 


Comments

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  • David Saucier
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    I heard him talk about this live the headline on this article is the nicest thing he said about him.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • borealis1972
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    I would like Dana--who is so "supportive" of the L/G/T community-- to hire Fallon Fox or any other transgender fighter to fight his female fighters...He won't do it...This political correctness thing has ruined American politics, education, and every aspect of our cultural life and is now threatening to ruin fighting sports as well...Would Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the Olympics?! Not a chance. He's free to change his *** and claim any gender identity, but he doesn't have the right to beat up genetically disadvantaged women...

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Baby Ads
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    hey wats wrong with telling da truth, i mean fallon fox is a man, why would he fight ladies, absolutely right about fallon fox.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    "...Would Fallon Fox be allowed to compete in the Olympics?! "

    Yes. Google, use it.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • DanaBlack
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    The issue is not Mitrione's position, its his big stupid mouth. He could have stated his position without being offensive and derogatory to so
    many people, like Joe Rogan did.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Michael Stephensen
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    Sure, political correctness is a problem that is offensive. Matt's rant is the opposite extreme of that and was also offensive. We have to be careful that in our frustration with P.C. we don't allow hateful rants like Matt's to go unchallenged.

    We can think what we want about the fairness of a transgendered person fighting as a woman but at the end of the day she has to deal with people's opinion about whether she should get to fight AND she has to deal with the hatred and disrespect. She should not have to deal with the hatred and disrespect.

    What Matt should have said is "I don't believe it would be fair for Fallon to fight women. I don't believe her treatments have done the inherent male advantage". End of story.

    The problem was not Matt's opinion it was the hateful way it was presented. Opposing hatred is not political correctness, it's humanity.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Baby Ads
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    so he should be in olympics not in an mma world, your such a stupid guy mar evan holober.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    "Six years of taking performance de-hancing drugs, you think is going to change all that? That's ridiculous."

    Many medical professionals do (many also don't or don't know). It's good that Matt clears that up for everybody though.

    "Meathead" fits.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • godsofwararise
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    Plus referring to a transgendered person as a 'freak' tells us where he's really coming from. Anyone other than a medical specialist who's making some sort of definitive statement about whether or not Fox should fight is either ignorant or basing their argument on whatever biases they may have.

    There is only one correct answer to the question 'should Fallon Fox be allowed to compete against other women'; namely "I don't know". Fighters should let the medical and sports medicine community decide and just STFU about this subject.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    No actually anyone with common sense can make that statement. Those drugs don't change your bone structure to that of a woman. They don't make you lose height, skull thickness, bone thickness. So it is a fact that is easy to assume in any case. "Isn't going to change (all that)." Meaning it doesn't change everything. And those are significant attributes that separate men from women, and are reasons they shouldn't compete against eachother.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • David Saucier
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    @Evan doctors will never be able to prove if Falon has an advantage or not during the span of his fighting career, because They would have to do a long term study on transgender fighters, plus they know nothing of the fight game compared to what a fellow fighter or coach would know. I think Matt's opinion is just a valid as any doctors.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    -During the span of "her" fighting career. Fallon Fox is legally a woman, and should be addressed as such. It's both politically correct, and respectful.

    -There would be no need for long term study for just fighters. There would be long term studies for things like bone density (as Chael... spoke of above), and muscle mass on transgendered people compared to their born female counterparts. Which are being done, and have been ongoing since the early nineties (and have ramped up ever since the IOC made transgendered people eligible for events like amateur boxing, judo, and wrestling almost a decade ago).

    -Rosi Sexton's opinion is as valid as most doctor's. Any fighter looking at the situation in a respectful fashion without a personal agenda has a valid opinion. A guy who routinely berates somebody just because they are a transgender person fighting, does not a valid opinion.



    Reply 1 year ago
  • David Saucier
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    Your right they can run test but still nothing that would say He does or does not have an advantage fighting, and what happens when he starts taking steroids?

    Reply 1 year ago
  • odesahitman
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    Evan,

    Lets imagine that your next door neighbour is a big woman weighing 120 kilos, she decides to take up MMA and Matt Mitrione does the same as Fallon Fox, is it a fair fight?

    Ps, the position you are taking is based on your own value judgements and until you have studied and fully comprehend all opposing posiitons you dont hold a valid opinion.

    Based on your argument (see last sentence) lets reverse your position and say that a guy berating somebody just because they are non transgender person fighting does not have a valid opinion.

    On this occasion Evan your premise/ position is flawed :)

    Have a great day,



    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Even being transgendered is not a valid stance that has proof of validity. It is just the social stance most people take in the western nations based on let me do what I want and leave me alone. There is no proof or solid grounding to call transgenderism normal or homosexuality for that matter. It's all just opinion and nobody wants to rock boats. It's actually more reasonable to think that naturally they are invalid and merely accepted.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    "Legally" a woman or man means nothing. Genetically means everything.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Michael Stephensen
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    @ Falcon, how many female fighters have the genetic make up of the genetic mutation XXY (like Jamie Lee Curtis was rumored to have)? I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm saying it is not as simple as you have suggested.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Even that is not considered normal, it's considered an unbalanced mutation. Also i have not heard of it causing a problem with gender identity just that they suffer from similar problems as girls with rett syndrome. I am no doctor and have no official study on this. I agree there is always the 1 in a million scenario that can come around but that would account for a handful of individuals worldwide.who undergo treatment to correct and not to maintain. It needs correction and is treated as such as far as i can tell.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Oh, Odesa its so cute when you think you know a lot about a situation. You get all confident, and then back track as fast as possible when you get called out.

    "Lets imagine that your next door neighbour is a big woman weighing 120 kilos, she decides to take up MMA and Matt Mitrione does the same as Fallon Fox, is it a fair fight?"

    If she goes through the therapy, and over a period of time is legally a man (while also holding the hormone levels of a man). Then yes, it would be legal.

    "Ps, the position you are taking is based on your own value judgements and until you have studied and fully comprehend all opposing posiitons you dont hold a valid opinion."

    No, the position I am taking is one where a real debate is taking place. The problem is, I have read 10 -15 studies including the opinions of multiple experts brought in by the IOC, along with some used to counter their ideas (example Dr. Ramona Krutzik whom Steph Daniels interviewed on BE).

    Again, you are off base (which is a bit of a theme of your post).

    "Based on your argument (see last sentence) lets reverse your position and say that a guy berating somebody just because they are non transgender person fighting does not have a valid opinion."

    Based on my argument Matt isn't fit to provide an opinion here because he's obviously biased against transgendered people. The vile nature of his diatribe directed at Fallon shows more than enough evidence to prove this.

    "On this occasion Evan your premise/ position is flawed :)"

    Not at all, really. But thanks for the reply, your wit is always fun to counter. Even when it is sadly misplaced.

    Cheers


    Reply 1 year ago
  • odesahitman
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    LOL,

    Do you know so much because you are in fact Fallon Fox? :)

    You know that men have an extra rib than women, therefore he is able to take more shots to the body than a woman can.

    Therefore you haven't really done your homework - tut tut... I'll have to change into a woman to beat you...

    nice exchange :)

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Evidence isn't proof.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Evidence is proof. Your opinion is not.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Evidence is probable based on an opinion towards something. Just like the evidence that we come from primates is yet unproven but believed by many because in their opinion it makes the most sense.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    -that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.

    Evidence>Your opinion without any

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    You understand what "tends" means right? It just means that it "likely" leads to prove something. Evidence is not proof.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    I completely understand.

    The problem is, it is classified as proof by most definitions cited. So evidence is proof.

    But mostly evidence>your opinion

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    You need to back and read slowly over those definitions as they clearly state that evidence is presumed to be true and used to determine truth. Evidence is not proof it is weight for an argument.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.

    This is the definition. Proof is a point in the definition. Not that it is weight for an argument.

    You can't read a sentence any slower.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Presumed is not fact. When you are in court, evidence is used to try and find proof. Proof is undeniable and is the end of all the debating. Evidence is countered by evidence but proof cannot be countered, it's final. Evidence is not final and therefore not proof. They have used evidence to send people to prison based on all "reasonable" doubt being swept away only to have the guy released years later by proof that it was not possible for the evidence brought to be factual. Proof is the bottom line, evidence is the presumed.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    proof is undeniable fact.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    If she doesn't have the ability to carry/create/use more muscle mass, and does not have any extended advantages in her bone structure than there need be no more testing.

    Same thing that will happen with everybody taking steroids. She'll win a title, and most likely not get caught.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Cpt. Paranoid
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    She probably doesn't have that ability any more, but she did for the 31 years she was a he. Let's say you put a fighter, born a female, on testosterone and HGH for 31 years, then took her of it for 6 years, would you say that fighter has no advantage over other clean female fighters?

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Cpt. Paranoid-

    The IOC believes it is for Olympic events (which include Boxing, Judo, and wrestling).

    However, that is the point. The discussion is ongoing. With very real points needing be discussed on both sides.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Cpt. Paranoid
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    I know the IOC opinion on the matter. I was asking for yours? I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But I thought I'd put it in another perspective. And I would be glad to get your take on the scenario that I presented above. I can't believe that 31 years with way higher levels of testo and HGH than your opponents wouldn't give any one a advantage, it just doesn't seem logical that it wouldn't.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Her Test levels are already much lower from the treatment. HGH levels?

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Cpt. Paranoid
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    Males have higher levels of Human growth hormone levels in their body than females, especially IGF-1 and -2.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • odesahitman
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    Captain Paranoid is right on this one Evan.

    Thanks Cap.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    I would say she would get a disadvantage if she stays off of it and would deserve the disadvantage.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    Yes there is ignorance on this site, but that's not the greatest example. Obviously Meathead just can't stand the thought of men that become women. And he thinks it's sick. But even if he's biased, it doesn't mean he's wrong that it's unfair to have that person compete in a women's division.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    "No actually anyone with common sense can make that statement."

    Incorrect. Take the complete opposite of that, and that is correct.

    "Those drugs don't change your bone structure to that of a woman. They don't make you lose height, skull thickness, bone thickness. So it is a fact that is easy to assume in any case. "Isn't going to change (all that)."

    -That is why there is fervent debate right now. There are many doctors who believe the opposite about the bone structure, with many that agree. However, it is pretty much universal that muscle mass/growth/structure is all on the level of a biological woman by 5 years in to the therapy.

    -There needs to be more research that goes in to this that takes the ideas from endocronologists, and other doctors into account. However, considering the world's preeminent amateur sports organization already ruled in favor of transgendered people competing, there is a window for it to happen in fighting.


    Reply 1 year ago
  • Michael Stephensen
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    @ chael4president, I don't think Fallon should fight women but I am intrigued by this "bone structure" arguement which I have seen repeated. If two fighters are in the same weight division and both weigh, say, 135 then what bone structure advantage are you suggesting they have? If she is the same weight and has bigger bones then she would have to have less ?muscle or ?thinner skin? Sounds like a disadvantage to me. I think the key in this discussion is that we don't make up silly unsubstantiated crap.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    If they cut weight it negates the idea of thinner skin or less muscle. Consider that it is easier for men to cut weight as well because muscle burns fat and men have a higher percentage of natural muscle than women. I think it would make a man capable of coming in small like all the women easier and then he could be bigger by the next night. Also a study in Canada found mens brains had a 4% quicker message rate for brain to muscle reflexes and it was always measured the same speed with no variation from men to women. Genetically there is no way around the fact that if your male you will have certain abilities that a woman wouldn't have.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    @Michael Stephensen- Later in the debate I realized that skull structure was the more important attribute. Due to this person being able to absorb blows to the head with an advantage. But since you mentioned it, I do still believe a man's bone structure provides an advantage. Heavier and wider or larger bones will have more force during punches or kicks. Especially knees I would bet. And even if the weight of muscle was the same or slightly less, I think a man's muscle is also likely to be more dense than a woman's. Usually it seems a 120 lb. man can over power a 120 lb. woman even when both seem in equal health. You have to assume equal skill level of course. Even if it is not due to muscle density it may just be the muscle structure of a man being made more efficient in proportion to weight. I've heard girls are proportionately stronger in certain ways, but men certainly seem to be more of wrestling machines. And just naturally harder punchers. I don't think my point on bone structure is silly unsubstantiated crap. And usually I respect your opinion more than most on this site because you seem unbiased. But right now you're just being a fruit.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Think of the beautiful t*ts and a*s that are natural and fatty for women that men don't deal with and that we replace that fat with muscle in our genetic code.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    He doesn't have to have "extended advantages" in bone structure. If his bone structure RIGHT NOW is anything like it was before the hormone therapy, then it's CHEATING. It's an unfair advantage. And it's just disgusting that someone would feel ok with fighting women, even if they feel they were supposed to be a woman. And had to "fix it". You got me all wrong buddy. My statements are not biased. I don't care if people wanna add some parts or take them away, take whatever juice they take, for man or woman. I'm not homophobic. I have no problem with gay people or people that get *** changes. ( I refuse to call them transgender though, just sounds ridiculous to me.) I have no problem with anyone's sexual lifestyle preferences. But in a combat sport, it's not fair to do this. And everyone knows it. That's why people don't like it. How many times over the years have you seen this type of person and could easily tell because they have big man hands. Take larger feet into the equation. Punches and kicks will have more power. I already mentioned the height factor. The fact that we are even debating this is ridiculous. Everyone knows you don't just do the deed, and become like a normal woman. I've seen only 1 or 2 over the years that almost looked like they were really born that way. Like really convincing. It is not the same as being born a woman. If he wasn't fighting it wouldn't matter. But he is. So it does.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Sad that this has weaks already. LK, you're looking incredibly ignorant.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    Fighters have every right to express their opinion on this. No one would allow this in the WNBA, or the Olympics, or any other legit sporting event. So why should MMA act like a bunch of botards and let this happen? MMA athletic commission people I mean.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Yeah because only people that that are "pros" know what to do or how to be opinionated correctly. He's calling him a freak for his psycological stance on being able to justify fighting genetically disadvantaged women. HE IS A MAN. You can call a red rose blue if you want and you can get the government to change the definition of blue to red but it still is a red rose. You start becoming insane when you try and thwart all original definitions just to justify the life you want to live. These people that do so have real problems psycologically.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    "Fighters have every right to express their opinion on this. No one would allow this in the WNBA, or the Olympics, or any other legit sporting event"

    The IOC allows it. Seriously, use google before posting.

    That's why there is a big enough debate about it right now in MMA. Its because MMA is a violent event.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    What an insightful observation. Of course the big debate is because it's violent. All civilized nations have agreed for a while now that it's not ok for a guy to hit a girl. Let alone compete in fighting and do it for a living. Heck if they decide this is definitely legal forever. It won't be long before you get some guy in there who just got the operation. And is a cliche of what this whole thing is about. He'll get in there with his large hands and feet and beat the crap out of some girl. And then everyone that wanted to defend this just so they could feel like they did a good deed and were being real progressive and PC, will feel like a complete idiot. Who is to say this hypothetical fighter won't get surgery and be on hormones for a few months, and then in the rules he's within regulation. So he'll go in there and it will be quite a spectacle. That is what people are imagining when they talk about it ruining the sport. It'll ruin the sport for women at least. We don't have to worry about too many women crossing over and dominating the men's divisions.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    @ Evan- And by the way you're right that I didn't Google it before I said I'm sure the Olympics and other legit sports wouldn't allow this. I didn't bother looking it up because sometimes I forget just how stupid this world and the masses are. Everyone is so afraid of looking like they are a homophobe or like they are not on the latest hippie bandwagon. That they will pass all kinds of crazy laws or rules. And no I don't care about gay marriage. I don't care who marries who. But I don't see integrity in a sport where you can just Frankenstein yourself and get an advantage. If only I could surgically add height and more muscle, because that's how "I feel" I was supposed to be born. This whole thing is ridiculous. It's appalling that this man was ever granted a license and actually has fights with women under his belt. Like Meathead said though, I hope one of these girls kicks his bu tt. Hopefully once that happens all organizations can decide he isn't good enough anyway and stop giving him fights with real women.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    So, out of all that, you don't have the balls to just admit you were wrong. And your completely uneducated opinion on the subject (unless the "cmon everybody knows") is your coup de grace of a point. Stop typing a million words of complete bullshit to back up your bias to the situation.

    The problem isn't Meat head's point that she shouldn't be fighting women. The problem is his incredibly insensitive approach.

    Take a step back, shut the **** up for a second, and figure that out.

    This isn't just a "hey you use to a be a man, so you can never compete in MMA against women". There's more to it. Either you can open your mind and realize that, or you can continue to look incredibly ignorant and defend somebody who compared Fallon Fox to Chris Brown.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    Maybe I was wrong about some other sport allowing it. I don't know who the IOC is. It has nothing to do with balls. I stand by my stance that any legitimate sport wouldn't allow this. And any that does, I no longer consider legitimate. It's even more of a crime to allow it in a combat sport. What I said about the skull is really all I need to have beaten you already. But the larger hands and feet just add to it. How many times has Joe Rogan talked about how size of your hands is a factor in punching power. Hand strength also. I'm sure foot strength is a factor with many types of kicks as well. And listen one more time you bandwagon democrat pansy. I'm not defending Meathead for the comments where he went too far. But saying Fallon shouldn't be allowed to fight women is nothing to get punished over. And I'm sure he wouldn't have been suspended had he said it however Cain said it.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    @Evan-Jesus Evan. I know exactly what you and the other Obama fans are mad about. I never supported the part where Matt goes too far. I simply agreed with the statement that this person shouldn't be allowed to fight women. And yes, I said I was sure the olympics would not allow this, and did not look it up first. Because I thought surely if any organization was logical enough to not even consider allowing this, the olympics would be it. Apparently I was wrong. I'm so ashamed. You're still wrong about the whole thing. All the people that think it's unfair aren't just biggots or gay bashers or whatever. Almost everyone at least has a gay cousin. I know I do and I don't care what people do if they aren't hurting anyone. And that opinion applies to sexual orientation, getting odd surgeries, doing recreational drugs, having fun with guns, etc. I think we should be free to do whatever we want. But what this person is doing is hurting someone other than himself. It's hurting the sport, and could hurt some poor REAL woman sometime.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • highkick12
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    A man should never be paid to be up women. Simple as that to me

    Reply 1 year ago
  • KeithFarrell
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    yes your right, he should do it for free.

    Joking joking but the way you are saying it sounds like domestic violence, this is a sporting event where the natural woman is voluntarily signing to do this.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • hatch1921
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    It's been brought to my attention my comments were highly offensive to the " insert offended parties here" and my personal views do not align with the views of the UFC. For this, I am truly sorry for any and all comments I've made towards he/she/it and I'm deeply sorry to those of you "insert people with hurt feelings here" who I've hurt. I've let myself down, my family and the the greatest fighting organization in the world, the UFC. I've entered myself in to 37 minutes of intense sensitivity training to rectify this situation.

    My sincerest apologies,
    Meathead.


    -----------------------------------
    Just copy and past Matt.... this will all blow over. Even though you might have expressed yourself in a manor which wasn't the most professional... I think most of us could read between the lines. I agree... it's a dude fighting a woman... and your personal feelings aside.. that's the facts.

    If others in the past can joke about ****... and remain in the UFC... you should be alright... go volunteer somewhere... recant your statement... and move on with life. I get the UFC has an image to build and maintain... but FFS we live in a super sensitive PC society. Get some thick skin offended people....

    Hatch

    Reply 1 year ago
  • KeithFarrell
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    I think it comes down to more than needing thick skin when you are calling a type of people disgusting freaks and that they are sick etc.

    You can say you don't agree with their choices and that is 100% okay but he is bordering if not flatly spewing out hate speech.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • hatch1921
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    1st Amendment ... he has the right to say what he wants.. we have the right to agree or disagree IMO. Was his choice of words the best... no... not IMO... he could have simply stated he didn't agree with the allowing Fallon fight as a woman because she is in fact a man and moved on.

    The UFC has to cover their a$$ in situations like this... and rightfully so as they want to reach the largest audience possible.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    He thinks they are disgusting for fighting women. that is all.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    1st amendment argument. Jesus.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • hatch1921
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    Spent 20 years serving in the military.... so people can say what that want. I might not always agree... but I'll support their right to speak out.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    you obviously want to say what you want too right? Should someone who says rats are ugly and disgusting be repremanded because they think that. Nobody is threatening anyone here.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    So you're comparing a human being to rats now?

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Whatever man, It's an analogy of reasonable thought. Rats are rats and people are people but either way all are here for a reason and do their part as long as they don't get corrupted by disease or bad habits that affect everything else in a destructive way.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    No it isn't. Not even close.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Right on.

    Problem is, it doesn't apply here. Sure, he can say whatever he'd like. However, as a contracted fighter to the UFC they are free to do whatever they'd like also.

    1st amendment applies only to the government interfering with free speech.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • hatch1921
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    It does apply here... he exercised his rights... and now he will have to endure the backlash from doing so while under contract of the UFC. He can say whatever he wants... and the UFC can choose to suspend or terminate him. He knows better from seeing other fighters being punished for saying dumb $hit. I'm not saying what he said was right... some of it was... he could have taken a different "professional" approach.

    This will be interesting to see how things play out.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    I agree with that. The arguement is really about should the UFC allow or disallow the speach. I think it should be okay to state opinions as long as no threats are involved. Sure we have heard rampage mock Titos head size and Jones chicken legs and Marcus tell Bisping he is like a bandaid. Who freaking cares. Sonnen has done far worse than this which I don't think was bad at all.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • ReignDropz
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    Evan dont even bother.....they dont get it. They are mixing arguments of different opinions together and they are too convinced at this point to back down and admit they are wrong.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Doesn't at all. Free speech has nothing to do with Matt's punishment for being hateful per the guidelines of the code of conduct built in to the fighters' contracts.

    That is what were discussing. If not it would just be this random guy is an *******.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Everyone else dont even bother..... they don't get it. They are mixing arguments of different opinions together and they are too convinced at this point to back down and admit they are wrong.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Falcon- your not providing anything valid, and would destroyed from multiple angles right now if this were BE. Or a site of equal stature.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    In your opinion. You haven't proven anything at all just that you have an opinion that in my mind is far from concrete.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Answer me this, Is this person in question a man or a woman in your mind judging by the evidence you have? I am very interested to know.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    She is a woman. Medical evidence.

    What evidence do you have at all that supports your "opinion"?

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    That just goes to show how biased or deluded you really are. My evidence would be a birth cert. You are literally calling a red rose blue and falling for it yourself.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Yes I'm calling a red rose blue. That makes much more sense than not acknowledging sexual reassignment surgery. Right.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Nope, You have to change the DNA for it to be legit. I can put a spoiler from a Porsche on my Focus and add a decal or two but it still is a focus until its torn down and built with Porsche parts.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Ah, so humans are comparable to cars now. At least they're not rats anymore.

    "Nope, You have to change the DNA for it to be legit."

    This is your opinion. Which is disagreed with by professionals, and most rational people. Not a statement with any truth.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Most pros didn't think the earth was round at one point too. It's not the quantity it's the quality. There is no opinion involved in fact. The DNA is a mans DNA. Many pros dissagree with the idea that they can become female by choice. many agree that you can call yourself what you want but it doesn't make it the correct stance. Rational people realize that men are men and women are women and stars are stars and forks are forks. Go ahead call a fork a spoon if thats what makes you feel better but you are the one being irrational. Would you say I'm driving a porsche if I had focus with a Porsche decal on it and a Porsche wing? It seems you would, thats okay if thats what you believe in but reality is nicer for me.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Maybe on an emotional and psycological stance you can say DNA has no need to be a part of what makes a man or a woman but on a physical level it is paramount. And emotions are just opinions.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • hatch1921
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    *R*A*P*E * is censored? wow!

    Reply 1 year ago
  • KeithFarrell
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    I honestly don't know what to think about Fallon Fox, I feel there isn't enough evidence to be certain whether it's fair or not so to air on the side of caution she should probably not fight right now.

    That being said, if a woman wants to go out her way to be signed in to legally fighting Fox in a MMA competition, who are we to tell that woman she is not allowed?
    Unless she is an Invicta or UFC fighter, fighting Fallon Fox could possibly be her biggest payday and will get her the most coverage, should we really stop her from getting that chance?
    Fighting in regional MMA shows is a hard way to make a living, never mind being a woman in that landscape.

    That's my opinion and I'm open to change it when hearing solid information.

    All I can say for certain is Mitrione has no one to blame but himself, touching two of the most sensitive subjects in MMA is dangerous enough but making light of one and going all out in a rant filled with insults is just asking for trouble.

    Did he miss the how Miguel Torres getting fired for **** jokes thing???

    Reply 1 year ago
  • enjoylife321
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    This is the type of comment meathead needed to share at a private BBQ party. Ariel helwani would have loved this interview. Ariel is always baiting fighters to speak out against controversial topics like TRT, Steroids, DIAZ missing interviews...etc

    Reply 1 year ago
  • KeithFarrell
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    If you actually watched it you would've seen he let Mitrione have his "Mitrione Minute", basically saying to Matt that he has the floor and can speak about anything in the world that he wants to.

    Ariel had no idea that Meathead was going to go down that lane.
    To be fair though Mitrione Minute has produced very insensitive moments before, such as jokes about Evan Tanner's death.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • enjoylife321
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    It was probably time Keith he got pulled up... E.T jokes are hardly funny

    Reply 1 year ago
  • David Saucier
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    I remember that Ariel shut him down after the ET joke

    Reply 1 year ago
  • KeithFarrell
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    I am watching the MMA Hour as I write this and the news broke just after I got past Meathead's interview.
    It's extremely important to note Mitrione made 3 or 4 very serious and untasteful jokes about the Lloyd Irvin r.ape situation, including making light of the woman being sxually assaulted.

    Did he really think that was a good move for his career?

    Kobe Bryant got fined $100000 for saying F4GGOT, would you guys still hate the UFC if they gave him a 100 grand fine instead of suspending him?

    Reply 1 year ago
  • KeithFarrell
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    Apologies folks. I thought Mitrione was getting in trouble for the **** and Fallon Fox comments.
    Managed to get confirmation off Ben Fowlkes via Twitter that Meathead is suspended solely due to transgender comments

    Reply 1 year ago
  • enjoylife321
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    I don't agree with transgender surgery, but i will say that Fallon does not deserve to be publicly humiliated by meathead. In regards to fighting, providing Fallon is transparent in declaring her status as a *** change fighter I see no problem if females fighters are willing to challenge her with this knowledge and both fighters come in at same weight.

    People talk about bone density, strength etc. I think you could find bigger variations amongst men who are fighting in terms of body shape, physique, height, reach etc.
    However, it is likely that Fallon will have physical advantages despite hormone therapy

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Logic.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • mmagym
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    PC ********!!!

    dont matter...ronda, gina or cyborg would destroy most male fighters any way :)

    Reply 1 year ago
  • mmagym
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    fallon proper has a wide jaw and bone structure of a guy.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    That was the biggest factor in my opinion. Jaw structure and skull structure overall. I'd bet my bottom dollar he can take a bigger hit than most women in the sport. And once again, that in itself would be reason to not allow him. Let alone the other potential advantages.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • thealex
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    EFF that man i think the ufc shouldnt interfere with that stuff. let them have their own opinions.. personally i think meathead went a little overboard with the comments, but in the end im on his side

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Brian Cox
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    Well, as a Matt Mitrione fan, I'd have to say I'm disappointed in his choice of words, for describing his feelings on the matter. With that said and to me, this is a very subjective issue and as such, people are entitled to their opinions. All Matt has done and although badly, is state his opinion. That is all he has done.

    In terms of his suspension, by their code of conduct clauses, The UFC is entitled to suspend Matt and if it's been done for his choice of words and not his expression of thought, then I both understand it and accept it.

    As to the issue as a whole, I truly don't care. If they can find female fighters who wish to fight her, then allow them to fight. If women don't want to fight her, then they shouldn't have to.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • ReignDropz
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    Glad this discussion is happening. I am one of the ones that can honestly say I'm not sure how I feel entirely about it, but there's no doubt there has to be some kind of restriction on what u can and can't say as a fighter. Kudos to Evan Hobler...you said exactly everything I would have said. It doesn't matter if you are 'weaked' for your comments supporting decency, it just shows the level of character on some of LK...not all of us feel that way. Hey Mike Drahota... Is NOW a good time for the Fallon Fox article?? ;-)

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    I got more coming.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    Now I'm not sure if this debate is more about whether Matt should be suspended, or if Fallon should be allowed to fight women. Obviously Matt lost his head, or never realized he was gonna come across like real jerk for his blunt choice of words. However his reasons for saying it are just. Imagine a female fighter that can't get any other fights that even remotely pay a decent wage. She finally signs a contract to fight the man, because she desperately needs money for living expenses and training. Then Fox beats her face into oblivion. If that happens I hope all you supporters are watching closely. And I wish I could see your faces. Not that we will know if the real woman was in financial trouble as an unknown female fighter. I don't even know how skilled or powerful Fox is or what he looks like. But there will be a reckoning with all this. Either he is going to expose the advantages that are probably there, through dominating performances that clearly aren't because of pure skill. Or a woman will beat him despite his thick jaw and skull. Oh and ReignDropz, just because he picked that side doesn't mean he's the one with all the character. He just happens to be more of a democrat. I haven't seen anyone on here being politically incorrect. Just making statements of opinions why there are unfair advantages. I don't think Evan's feelings got hurt from the Weaks. We've all gotten them before when people disagreed with us. This is a mostly male participated site, so clearly Evan will get more weaks in this debate. Because most people just see this as black and white, man beating up on women for an easier paycheck than if he fought men. That person must have a lotta character too. lol. ( Not comparing you to Fallon, Evan. But did feel the need to point out being in the minority in a debate doesn't prove character. I'm sure you may have plenty. But I'm in the minority every time I defend Chael Sonnen. My character and yours has to come from real life. It's very easy for all of us to say what we thing on the computer.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    "Now I'm not sure if this debate is more about whether Matt should be suspended, or if Fallon should be allowed to fight women."

    Then step the **** back, and realize this isn't a debate about Fallon fighting women. Its about a personal attack on a transgendered fighter.

    "Obviously Matt lost his head, or never realized he was gonna come across like real jerk for his blunt choice of words."

    Obviously, you're giving Matt an incredible benefit of the doubt strictly when it makes just as much sense that he doesn't like transgendered people.

    "However his reasons for saying it are just."

    And this is why you have no logic in this conversation. Nothing is a good enough reason to go on a tirade against somebody that isn't doing anything wrong. Fallon is fighting, and is legal to do so. Matt was sexist, homophobic, and incredibly hateful all at the same time. Nothing excuses that.

    "Imagine a female fighter that can't get any other fights that even remotely pay a decent wage."

    Ok, so most fighters.

    "Then Fox beats her face into oblivion."

    It is a fight. That could happen. Same thing could happen when a women steps into the cage with another person that was born a woman.

    "If that happens I hope all you supporters are watching closely. And I wish I could see your faces."

    And that would mean?

    "Not that we will know if the real woman was in financial trouble as an unknown female fighter. I don't even know how skilled or powerful Fox is or what he looks like. But there will be a reckoning with all this."

    So basically, you don't know **** about transgendered people in sports. You don't know **** about Fox's skill set. You don't know **** about her as a person. You continue to disrespect her, by calling her "him and he". You don't know anything about the transgendered community, and you think hate speech is just when it has a just position.

    Gotcha.

    "But there will be a reckoning with all this. Either he is going to expose the advantages that are probably there, through dominating performances that clearly aren't because of pure skill. Or a woman will beat him despite his thick jaw and skull."

    Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit.

    "Oh and ReignDropz, just because he picked that side doesn't mean he's the one with all the character."

    No, my character showing has nothing to do with which position I fall on in this discussion (which is again, very real and multi faceted). It has to do with calling out Mitrione for his reprehensible behavior, and that directly relates to people who find looking past hate speech acceptable.

    "He just happens to be more of a democrat."

    No, I just happen to lose logic and evidence to fuel my opinion. Not bullshit.

    "I haven't seen anyone on here being politically incorrect."

    You have multiple times by calling her "him", "he", and referring to her as a man.

    "Just making statements of opinions why there are unfair advantages."

    If that's all anybody did, it'd be fine and they would be referred to the fact that Mitrione's choice of words is the problem. Not his base opinion. However, it is again completely inaccurate.

    "I don't think Evan's feelings got hurt from the Weaks. We've all gotten them before when people disagreed with us."

    Not my feelings per se, but the faith I have in this message board. When this stuff comes up, and so many people spout such an unintelligent opinion its clear we are far behind sites like Bloody Elbow when it comes to intelligent discussion. Its sad.

    "This is a mostly male participated site, so clearly Evan will get more weaks in this debate."

    This is, and so are about 10 other MMA sites going strong in this discussion right now. The good ones have figured out Fox isn't the point here. Its Mitrione.



    "Because most people just see this as black and white, man beating up on women for an easier paycheck than if he fought men."

    2 points up.

    "That person must have a lotta character too. lol. ( Not comparing you to Fallon, Evan. But did feel the need to point out being in the minority in a debate doesn't prove character."

    That's fine man. You can say whatever you'd like.






    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    @Evan- I suppose I didn't word it right. His reasons for being against her fighting are just. I didn't mean his whole speech. Very early on in this post I stated that I didn't hate people with *** changes. And it wasn't about that. Stated that my arguments were about the unfair advantage. You can act like a keyboard warrior douche all you want and attack me. But you're only doing it because you know in the end there are advantages. And you don't like it that Matt went too far. Personally I would never talk the way Matt did in public. And I don't agree with the hate speech. But I also don't care. I only posted to argue whether or not he should fight women. I don't care about your perfect world, he shouldn't say that, that's so mean, self righteous crap. We all have said things about people we don't like. In fact we have probably all hated someone in our lifetime. He just said it on camera. Get real buddy. You're going to see a lot more people saying things like this. It's not that big of a deal. This debate is more about people wanting to act like they are the good guys, by hating on Matt Mitrione. When was the last time you thought or said that people need to quit being so mean to transgender people. Probably never. It's not like they are as common as gay people. It's not some problem that needs to be changed. It's human nature to be disgusted when you see someone that looks like they should be in a horror movie. Not all of them look like that. But most of us have seen the stereotype before. Let it go. It's Meathead. He's always talking crap about whoever he doesn't respect. Again, I'm not justifying what he said. But it shouldn't surprise anyone. If Fallon gets his feelings hurt then he should have stayed home. Because he is a real moron if he did not expect things like this to be said. And lot more, and worse in the future. That's the world we live in.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • DG1
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    However you want to frame it, Fallon Fox is not approaching this in the true spirit of the martial artist. Estrogen therapy cannot change its skeletal structure from male to female. He/she will have an advantage over the other women that EASILY goes beyond any advantage that PEDs might give one of his/her competitors, and yet the PED user would be suspended.

    I think it takes a sadistic person to want to make a career of beating up women when he/she used to be a man. I don't care what you think about equality. This has nothing to do with equality. This has to do with a (former?) man wanting to beat up women on national television. It will turn the octogon into a freakshow.

    Vitor Belfort said he considers the octogon a "holy place" where true skills are tested, althletes push themselves beyond what they thought possible of themselves, and where the spirit of the martial artist - which is honor, respect, and competition - is revered. That's what MMA fans want to watch.

    Sorry Fallon, but until the athletic committees find a way to compensate of the advantages you'll bring to the rink, I have no interest in watching you fight. I'd feel like I was watching a domestic violence incident for the fun of it.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • ReignDropz
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    You guys are out your mind if you think this has to do with 1st Amendment rights. That's like arguing that fighters should be allowed to put whatever they want in their body because "well, it's their body they can do whatever they want". No. They can't. I think a lot of yall are missing the big picture here, Just because you are a fan of the sport doesnt mean you are looking at this professionally. The fighters you enjoy to watch are EMPLOYEES. The UFC is the EMPLOYER. If you do something at the job that the boss doesnt like, be prepared to face the consequences., You dont like it? FIND A NEW JOB!

    Reply 1 year ago
  • hatch1921
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    I think I stated that somewhere along the conversation. *****t does apply here... he exercised his rights... and now he will have to endure the backlash from doing so while under contract of the UFC. He can say whatever he wants... and the UFC can choose to suspend or terminate him. He knows better from seeing other fighters being punished for saying dumb $hit. I'm not saying what he said was right... some of it was... he could have taken a different "professional" approach.

    This will be interesting to see how things play out. ******

    Reply 1 year ago
  • ReignDropz
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    please lets not quote ourselves....that will set a record on LK for most responses ever, if we havent already. My point is, it doesnt matter what the general opinion is in this particular matter. The rules are the rules. Dont like it? Too bad. Matt's poor choice of words and disrespectful demeanor is what got him in trouble. The UFC's right's were more infringed than Matt's were. Thats the end of the story.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    Not really since the UFC is distancing themselves from Matt because of public problems it could have and so we the public are merely stating what we think about the subject and maybe many will be offended but regardless we all have a portion in this and just like when Fitch was cut and Chael got a title shot we all b*tched and we do now for other reasons that effect the UFC.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • ReignDropz
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    Sorry man, but "we're" the public too and it doesn't matter. Decency is decency in all places. He screwed up, thats it.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Haha we the public: all 25-30 of you.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    The general opinion is stated, and personified from sites that dwarf our LK. LK is in the minority (by far).

    Reply 1 year ago
  • falcon4917
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    I said we the public debate this stuff and there will be people offended. Where did I say we all agree with me? I stated we the public debate this stuff and create the issues that run the ufcs decisions.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • Evan Holober
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    Ah, my mistake. i thought you were implying that your opinion is the general consensus from the MMA public. Which it is not.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • ReignDropz
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    This has made my eyes hurt. Excellent points though Evan. I was in the process of writing an article up on Fox a couple weeks ago but was told it wasnt something LK wanted to go with. So in a sense, this is a good thing. I am glad you got throw your article out there tonight, it was a good write up and I'm sure will do right for LK as a whole.

    Reply 1 year ago
  • chael4president1
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    Yeah right. Maybe whatever MMA community forums you have looked at are more on your side. However the real public as in the entire U.S. or the entire world, likely would be against it in a landslide. Without a vote I suppose arguing who has more supporters is pointless, and doesn't matter anyway. Just because the majority agrees on something does not make it right. I think we should all know enough about history to realize that. This has been the first time I really wanted to be face to face with people and argue in real life without the delay. But ultimately no one on here is going to change anyone's opinion. It's difficult to not be very sure about what you think on this. And Mr. Stephensen, if you read this far down. I'm sorry I called you a fruit. I was annoyed at your smug little comment about mine. When mine made plenty of sense. Maybe if you got your doctorate in the U.S. you would remember about the skull, hands, and feet. j/k buddy. Had to release my inner Chael.

    Reply 1 year ago