Yves Lavigne not sure if Belcher's slam on Cote was legal
Posted on May 10, 2010, 05:40 AM by Daniel CassidyDuring the Saturday Night's UFC 113, Alan Belcher caused an upset when he locked in a rear naked choke to an already dazed Patrick Cote. It seems it was the slam before hand which is causing some debate.
As far as UFC rules to, it is illegal to spike an opponent onto their head, ie. Slamming them onto their head or neck. While it appeared at first that Cote had landed on his neck, later replays showed he had landed on his face. In my opinion though, it seemes to me that Belcher had the intention to drop Cote on his head illegally, although he didn't.
Sportsnet.ca however had this to say on the subject:
“[Patrick] Cote, meanwhile, complained that he was spiked (planted head first into the ground, which is illegal) just prior to being finished off with a guillotine [Rear naked choke] by Alan Belcher, but his face hit the mat first, which technically makes it legitimate, though referee Yves Lavigne (who didn’t officiate the fight) wasn’t so sure.”
While Lavigne wasn't in charge, the refferee was sitting ringside watching. Had it been another official on another night, maybe the fight would have been stopped?
Comments
There was a close one on TUFF also. Weird that the only two times I've really seen it happen, were almost back to back.
"As far as UFC rules to, it is illegal to spike an opponent onto their head"
"but his face hit the mat first, which technically makes it legitimate"
I have always been under the impression, that a person's face is part of their head... Could be wrong on that though...
I wonder what the specific language of the rule is.
obviously the face is part of the head, just a poor choice in language on my part. that said, its kind of a grey area, ie ur allowed to drop them on their head if they have u in a submission, as it is their responsabillity to let go.
but yeah the rule applies specifically to the top of the head, same reasoning as rabbit punching
They dont want them being slammed on the top of their head to avoid jammed/ broken necks. This slam was perfectly legal imo
Yeah, I was pretty sure about the face being part of the head. :) Didn't realize it was your wording. That's much clearer then. If it is the top of the head (which is what I always figured, compression of the spine), then this was a perfectly legal slam.
So a fighter being slammed head first into the ground shouldn't tuck or brace himself, so that his opponent can be penalized? Risk paralysis for a one point deduction or possible win?
That's like saying fighters shouldn't block or avoid illegal knees, kicks or stomps to the head. Because if illegal strikes miss or are blocked, they're not fouls.
Nah, although I get embarrassed by the way Kos flops (vlade divac style) in matches; the rules should be changes. Illegal strikes and throws should be penalized, whether or not they land. A half point for an attempted illegal strike or slam; and an additional half point if damage is done.
Not sure what Yves thinks he saw...
"While it appeared at first that Cote had landed on his neck . . ."
Really? To whom did it "appear" he landed on his neck? Were they watching the same fight?
Bullsh*t.
As much as I am a Patrick Cote fan, that was a legit (face plant) slam, and a well-deserved win by Belcher. Good fight all around. I'm sure Cote will take use this loss to shake off the ring-rust come back better.
A spike is an in-line pile driver of the head and spine. Kinda like nailing a spike into a board. Any bending or angular impact is not a "spike".
Its an tough call. Technically it is legit cause it wasn't a spike. I think he was in fact going for the spike, but it didn't happen. Legit win in my opinion.
people just looks for excuses for cote`s loss, and also the ref yves is canadian, coinsidence?
yes
That was a good face slam, not a spike. Cote should say as much after reviewing the footage.
He landed on his face dude.!!
i miss the old pride days!!!!!
Well, good thing Yves Lavigne wasnt officiating then or he would have screwed a fighter out of a legitimate victory. I actually picked Cote to win, but he definitely dropped him on his face. As for those who think he intended to spike him, he didnt. To me it looked like he thought he could power bomb him. He even said so after the fight. He said he had hoped to bring him all the way back around to be dropped on his shoulders. Probably just wasnt as strong as he thought he was.
thats 4 sure i pick cote' aswell he was strong enough to drop him on his face tho beltcher surprised me.he is looking better with every fight
Yea, I agree with his statements regarding him reaching a point where he should be considered a contender
This is the same case as when demaian maia got punched on the back of the head by marquart,what did the whole commision go blind and most fans of the sport. In my eyes he only lost against Anderson Silva.
wtf!....are you serious?.....lol....
I saw it as a legit slam, and did not see any bad intentions there. Nice job by Belcher and a big win.
it sucks cause cote was locked into that guillotine only because he turned up to see the ref.,
oh and it was not a pile driver it was a pedigree, lol
I'm a big PC fan, but I'm also a big AB fan, with that said, I would have been pleased with any decision, just so long as it was a good fight; and it was.
As to the "face slam" - to me it looked legal; I had no problem with it. I saw it as being within the rules and I don't think AB was trying to "spike" Cote. I think it was just what it was, AB dropped him on his face, he got stunned and AB took advantage - good for him.
If the UFC should worry about anything - they should stop J.B. Jones from throwing those spinning elbows. More often then not he comes dangerously close to hitting someone in the back of the head. I love Jones and thinks he's the most dynamic and explosive fighter in the UFC, an uncrowned champ, but his spinning elbows are too dangerous; they should be made illegal.
Final Note - I loved Belcher's comments about Anderson Silva. I would love to see that fight, because Belcher isn't afraid of him and will give him a real stand-up fight. And I'll be betting on Belcher.
Speaking of controversial slams, this clearly was a faceplant not a neck spike but did anyone else think Pellegrino spiked Camoes in his last fight leading to his win?
At best they could only accuse Belcher of an attempted spike but imo it wasn't a spike because Belcher didn't have Cote vertical which is where the danger lies, when you hold sombody vertically and drive them into the ground head first, ala a piledriver, the neck takes the full weight of the body, increased tenfold at the point of impact, aswell as the spine bieng dangerously compressed, it can actually paralise you, and a lot worse. Cote was at risk of none of the above, it was more of a face plant i agree and was legal imo, Belcher looks better each time out..........
The rules never said illegal and then legal slam ! I pick Belcher to win anyway
Yves Lavigne is crap anyways, he didnt even stop Shogun from hitting Machida... Machida was out for 2-3 punches after.... Shogun stopped himself watch the fight
lol not really, right when machida was out shogun knew it and stopped, yves tried to stopp him when he saw that machida was out but shogun was classy and stopped b4 the ref stopped it.
WE NEED REF. BIG JOHN M BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well this was a move that could have ended very badly with Cote breaking his neck just as easily as what did happen, this to me is similar to Daily's illegal knee, intent should be a crime.