Which BJ Penn will show up at UFC 127?

Bj "Prodigy" Penn will show up.... BJJ black belt, amazing boxing and good TD defense

Best lightweight of all time, If he shows up like he did against hughes (insane pumped up smacking his face and screaming+ in shape) I could see him subbing fitch since hes going to try to get it to the ground and hes alot bigger. Or you never know, tko

I FF****ing hope so, man. I want to see the Prodigy on Sat.



I got BJ Penn via TKO or Sub in round 2

i still thinkfitch will pull it off...too much size

bj has out standing boxing. and quick ko power ! and has a higher level bjj than jake sheilds !

yes penn is a legend ! i want the penn that comes out to his native hawaiian song! talking and swearing too him self ! thats the penn i want too see !

the only guys BJ has had trouble with are guys who have great movement

and with Fitch mostly grinding trying to wear on his opponents wont work

on BJ and with out a good GP game BJ will win Fitch is alot bigger but doesn't have the skill level to finish....BJ by choke...

I agree, I don't think it will matter what BJ shows up, Fitch is just going to smother him and win another decision.

Dream on man, he's not going to finish Fitch. It hasn't happened in like 8 years, or ever in the UFC. BJ has trouble with great wresters like GSP, Edgar, and even Hughes the second time they fought. Fitch is a great wrester and will have at least 20 pounds on BJ on fight night. I like BJ but this is a terrible matchup for him. He is going to get taken down and controlled for 15 minutes. Fitch might even pull of the TKO.

hey penn got better boxing SKILLS than fitch! LOOK at what he did too gsp the first time ! penn beat GSP up! penn is not even gsp s size ! gsp is longer and has more reach and is more stronger , better conditioning ! penn will stand with fitch! but if he gets taken down penn gots world class bjj skills ! he is 1 of the highest bjj black belts in the ufc ! it will not surprize me if penn wins by tko, ko, or submit him ! penn is that good ! when he is motivated heads on he shoulders correctly! fitch is going too be out classed IF he stands with fitch !

penn !

Is this another excuse incase he loses?



'Umm oh ah eh eh cha cho greased he yu Fitch'

looser, gsp was greasing. Dana white said it himself, he still would have probly won though

GSP admitted to cheating in the fight. Although it was not the grease, it was still something to throw BJ off. As he was walking in, BJ was kissed by a fan. A guy fan, who was hired by GSP himself to do so. GSP even admits to it, its on youtube. So as you can see, GSP clearly cheated and BJ would have knocked him out if he wouldnt of :) haha

and he greased

he did lol! gettin that guy too kiss him (penn)! and gsp greased up for that fight !

you seriously believe that bs? BJ was dominated...except that buddy

i think bj and his camp had a real tough time dealing with the speed and footwork frankie edgar. its not like bj was not motivated to regain his lightweight title.

how was he not motivated? the guy took his title and beat him in a huge upset. edgar just has too much speed, cardio and top level wrestling

You do realize that is what lobot66 just said, right?

I hope one that can beat Fitch. Fitch is everything that is wrong in MMA.

I like all the styles and there is no wrong in MMA it's mixed. I liked when it was Wrestler vs Striker and BJJ vs Wrestler and all that. Karate vs Taekwondo and stuff. I like how it is now too where most everybody knows a bit of everything. I like Fitch and he is doing a lot of things right to be number 2 in the world.

With that devastating win against Matt Hughes....I hope its the prodigy that comes out.

BJ all the way! I hope he wins this one.

What matters is what John Fitch shows up and I suspect it will be the same one that has only lost to GSP; in a title fight.



Love him or hate him - John Fitch is a machine and a tough one, at that. I still can't figure out how he survived the beating GSP laid on him, but none-the-less, he did. I don't see Penn putting this guy away.



Of these two fighters - the one you can clearly say that has always been motivated and never quit, is Fitch. Penn is a talented guy, no one would argue that, however, his heart and cardio have always been questionable. Many is the time when Penn said he was going to do this or that, only to fail; GSP & Edgar being the greatest examples.



The key to this fight - will be Fitch's wrestling and cardio, not Penn's improved / improving boxing skills. I personally think Penn would have been better advised to spend the time working on his wrestling and being able to take Fitch down (proactively), then simply relying on a defense; for eventually, the defense will fail.



I don't see Fitch standing and trading with BJ. I think he'll use his stand-up to set up his take-downs, only. And I know BJ is great at staying on his feet, but let's face facts, GSP ate him and there's not a lot of difference between GSP and Fitch, when it comes to wrestling skill; advantage Fitch.



With that said - if the winner of this gets a title shot, then may it be Penn and may the shot be against GSP. As a GSP fan, I would "love" to see that fight, again. GSP could use another stoppage to placate the whiners. :-)

"Penn is a talented guy, no one would argue that, however, his heart and cardio have always been questionable."



Years ago when he was on top I saw an interview with Matt Hughes where he discussed his cardio (at the time, amazing) advantages over his opponent and he described himself as something like a genetic rarity in terms of cardio. Of course there's a bit of Hughes ego splashed in there but he has competed in the highest circles for many years and knows his advantages and disadvantages so the comment piqued my curiosity.



Now BJ Penn on the other hand is always talking about being in shape and this time how he's finally at a point in his career where he's taking it seriously and thinking about his legacy and not resting on his talent alone. I love watching him fight but no matter if he comes in fluffy or ripped, win or lose, he ALWAYS starts fading a bit toward the end of the 2nd round. He's still dangerous and he still wins but you can see him slowing.



I always wonder if BJ works as hard as anyone else, and he's gifted with flexibility and dexterity and speed and balance, but maybe there's some truth to what Hughes says and maybe BJ is just not genetically designed to have great cardio. Don't get me wrong, he could outwork 99% of fans and recreational fighters, but when you're competing with arguably olympic-level athletes, a small disadvantage can get magnified fairly quickly.



Just a theory.

Continuation - posted too soon.



So who has BJ lost to? There are probably a few others but Hughes, Pulver, Edgar, GSP all come to mind. All great wrestlers and with the exception of GSP, all had decorated wrestling careers prior to MMA.



Fighters have compiled great records in BJJ and Muy Thai and Karate, etc., by having good but perhaps not great cardio. But no matter how talented one is at grappling, they'll never have a hugely successful wrestling career without also having great cardio. Cardio is just a proportionally larger part of success for wrestlers than other combat sports.



Finally, to close the loop on the theory, BJ doesn't lose to great wrestlers, he loses to great cardio, and it might be because he doesn't train as hard as wrestlers, but it might also be that he does train hard and cardio is his own personal kryptonite.

BJ went past the 3rd round with Florian, Sanchez, Sherk and GSP. he has the cardio its just not there in ALL his fights

@ Os



But he did it @ 155. He just doesn't want to put in the effort to stay in that shape or be in better shape @ 170 and I'm sorry, that's just not going to fly with a wrestler, cardio machine and BJJ black belt, like Fitch. He's too big, too quick, too strong, too talented and in too good a shape. Penn will never get him down, have top or submit Fitch. His only hope is to KO JF on his feet and I just don't think Fitch is going to be stupid enough to play the "stand-and-trade" game, with Penn.

Do you want my job? Lol seriously you've made some very good points.

@ FB



Your theory is a valid one. It would have to be tested in some manner, but it is possible. Well pointed contention, either way.



Here's a question for your theory - how much of cardio is comprised of heart or will? Remember when Penn called GSP a "front-runner and a quitter"?



I think the reality of it is - I don't think he knows what to do (mentally) when he doesn't just beat a guy. You raised an excellent point about him fading late in the 2nd round(s). I couldn't agree more. And I think a huge chunk of that boils down to he loses focus after X-minutes in a fight. He is so used to just beating people, that he really doesn't know how to handle the later rounds; you can see it on his face. You can actually see the quit and dejection.



When you think about it - what drives your cardio, your willingness to push through it....your will; your heart. I think BJ's biggest problem is quite literally his willingness to persevere, either in training or the actual fight. He talks a great game pre-fight, but at 170 other than Matt Hughes, who has he beaten? He's smoke in mirrors in the serious mix @ 170; he doesn't want to put the work in. You can't a serious contender in that division if you're not...wait for it...a great wrestler and Penn is not a great wrestler. He might have great TDD, but he doesn't have the other end of the equation. In no way, will JF or any other big wrestler in that division worry about Penn's TD offense; never happen. Until he does something about that and his cardio, he'll never be champ of that division; certainly not while GSP is there.



Excellent post.



Cheers,



Wing Chun

Just cause your posts are long winded doesn't make them correct wingchun. You are obviously biased, and your argument gives bj no credit at all. I find it funny that you usually post on every penn thread, with a mini essay on the state of penns legacy , yet youre clearly not a fan, interesting..

I'll sum up his legacy for you though:

2 division champ, 10yrs in ufc, fought in all weight classes, one of the most exciting and uniquely skilled to ever step in the cage. Does that sound about right?

You are right he probably gets frustrated, but fighting frankie edgar is like trying to catch a fly with chop sticks. Penn does fight flat footed sometimes and he needs to change that up. You seem to have alot of inside knowledge on BJ's mental focus and will to win though maybe you should write a book.

His record at 170 is 2-3 I think. You realise his fights at 170 have all been against the reigning champs at the time right? Hughes ruled that division for years before bj took that belt and now gsp does. Thats the elite of that division so theres no shame in that, I think if he fought a bunch of cans on his way to a title shot, his record would fare better. I think that he could have excellent fights with condit, hardy,alves etc.. you honestly dont think he could compete? Are you gonna convince me those guys are on a different level than penn? Even if he lost to em I bet they'd be more exiting fights than when gsp humped them

@Wing Chun



So....obviously Penn got outpunched in the 3rd, while on his back, but why was he on his back? Did he get outwrestled or out-cardio'd.



Just so I could say I was right, I want the answer to be out-cardio'd, but I can't really see that it's clearly one or the other. Hope you enjoyed the fights.

@ AJY



If you remove the insults from this post, it's not bad.



Your defense of BJ - I have never heard a guy who is three and three, in his last six fights, defended so passionately.



My hope for BJ - he is one fight away from being given his fourth title shot or defense, in four fights. That is impressive. I know no other fighter that can move up in weight, challenge for a belt, lose, go back down in weight and lose his own division title, immediately be given a chance to regain that title...blow it...scurry away from that division and back up a weight class, KO a (soon to retire) gatekeeper whose "number" Penn has always had, then be given a fight against the #1 contender in the division, a guy who is 13 & 1 and on a 5 fight win streak...and if he beats him, he get to fight for another title - wow.



Go BJ...he's really earned it.



As to GSP and humping - I certainly liked the way he humped Penn out of their fight (two years ago); GSP, by way of "quit" - round 4. Or do you remember that differently?



To the fight - I'm torn, part of me wants to see Penn win; even though it won't happen. If Penn were to win, it sets up the potential for GSP / Penn 3. :-)



Thanks for your comment(s). I appreciate them. You should really try and make them a little shorter, though.



Cheers,



Wing Chun

I usually do keep my comments opinions to the point in the forums, but in responding to your cute titled essays, well theres just so much wrong with them I have no choice but to respond in the same way. We'll go point format for this one:



- There are no real insults in my post against you, nothing with malice anyway. I think your one of the smarter members actually



-I do have a problem with you writing a biased post, passing it off as an objective analysis, just cause you can speak the queens english.



-You do comment on every Penn thread, your not a fan sooo you must be a ...wait for it..hater?



I agree Penn doesn't deserve a title shot, absolutely. H e should earn it. It's everything else I disagree with, which is your theory, and speculation about his , motivation, future of his career state of his legacy etc.. come down off your high horse bud. Of course I stick up for my favorite fighters, if I think the person insulting them is wrong



Umm I never mentioned the Gsp fight, I'm not hung up on that, are you?

@ AJY



I'll address you final comment, first - I am not hung up on the last GSP / Penn fight. LOL!! What would I have to be hung up on, his beating of Penn? No, man; I'll all for it. I hope I get to see it another one.. I'd rather watch that (fight), then GSP vs. Silva. What GSP fan wouldn't; come on.



Your insults - I agree. I wasn't particularly offended by them and it's why I didn't go after you. :-) However, you did call me long winded and you use words like "cute". I put that type of rhetoric down to passive aggressive BS. If you have a point to make and you apparently do, then you should simply make it and be done with it. You obviously have the intelligence to form a cogent argument, so let the argument(s) stand on its / their own merit, minus the juvenile editorial comments.



My biased post and your problem with it - it's my opinion; nothing more. I bass it off of years of following Penn's career. I apologize to to you, if my assessment of him is not to your liking. As to your having a problem with it - that is fine. You are under no obligation or imprimatur, which requires you to either agree with it or read it. I certainly do not have a problem with you (politely) disagreeing with me; it would be a boring world if we all agreed with one another. And to be honest, it's always nice to read a well laid out and articulate "reply"; regardless of whether or not the poster agrees with me. I could care less.



And on that point, as an example of a great post (one that didn't particularly agree with me), read "fluffybunns" post; very well laid out and argued.



Me commenting on every Penn thread - your point? As to me being a hater; I am not. Simply pointing out issues, concerns or flaws about a fighter on a fight blog, does not constitute being a hater; more critic, than anything.



Thank you for acknowledging that BJ doesn't deserve a title shot @ 170 and that he needs to earn it; a tip of the cap to you for saying so. And if he earns it, he should get it.



My horse - I don't have one. Whose speculating now? :-)



Concluding - I thank you for your thoughtful and passionate post(s). If BJ beats Penn, then good / great for him; beating Fitch will be no small task. It wasn't for GSP. :-)



Enjoy the fight AJY.



Cheers,



Wing Chun

Should read....



If BJ beats Fitch..not if BJ beats Penn; that's a separate post.

Well said wingchun, we can agree to disagree. I'll even vote cool on your post : )

@ AJY



..as I, yours. :-)

I think it's an unfair question. BJ always comes to fight, and brings it. he simply had no answer for Frankie's speed and game plan, in both fights. Give Edgar more credit, instead of taking credit away from Penn. There is a very good chance this fight will go to decision, as both Penn and Fitch are true warriors of the sport, and will put it all on the line when they meet.

@ Cage



Well put.

Fitch wins, 2nd round sub.

Wow thats optimistic.

fitch better step up his game if he wants to keep main eventing cards. for me this main event is kindof dissapointing jon fitch should never be the main event, unless its against someone who will dominate him. if your expecting an exciting fight well dont get your hopes up. i was excpecting the fight with alves to be somewhat exciting, with alves being one of the most exciting fighters in that division, but if fitch managed to make that fight boring than he can do it to any fight, unless he gets dominated of course

for someone who is considered that great, we shouldn't worry about which "version" of him thats gonna fight, i find it a bit ridiculous.

if u are that great, u should perform 100% each time u fight.

In answer to the question, unless he drops the flab I don't see a return of the old 'Prodigy'. As magnificent a talent as he is I always have a hard time believing that he trains at the level required to be UFC champion. Someone working the gym, sparring and working on technique as much as he should be, well they should not be coming into any fight carrying that much excess fat. Yes it didn't hinder him in previous years but time catches up with us all and extra weight can take the edge off any performance.



Would love to see a lean BJ Penn have another crack as GSP but in current shape he would have zero chance.

I think Penn looks ready for this one, it's gonna be tough like you said Jon fitch's dry hump techniques are second only to gsp's, and the size advantage makes it even tougher.

But this fight is only three rounds, Penn gassing shouldn't be a big issue, also BJ looks in good shape and spirits leading up to this, I think he respects jon's ability and knows he needs the win, Im betting on a well prepared bj come fight night

I saw Bj training for this fight in Hawaii on many different occasions and this is the first time i seen him bring in a load of talent to train with. and all of em are bigger n stronger fighters that were throwing him around. Bj's speed at 170 is gonna be Fitch's problem just like how Edgar is at 155

Do you train with BJ?

I see the same fight that GSP had with BJ. Stand up for about one minute of every round, followed by a boring but effective win by Fitch.



BJ belongs at lightweight, but in all honesty, I doubt he can beat Maynard or Edgar, not to mention the WEC champ.

Frankie Edgar had his 3 last super mega ultra fights, and this guy have time for another job. Edgar is monster...

The ONLY way Fitch will loose is if he goes for the finish recklessly and gets KO'd or swept from the top position. The ONLY way.

Fitch wins 2nd round by ground and pound

I'm very happy with the debate and discussion regarding this piece. You guys are truly really passionate fans and may the best man win!

Well let's face it I don't think bj has been finished since fighting Hughes for the second time and I don't think Jon Fitch can change this.I mean GsP or Frankie Edgar couldn't even finish him but that's not saying much because gsp/Edgar couldn't finish a fight if their life depended on it. Hopefully bj just runs thru Fitch and avenges his losses against GSP

BJ's better days are behind him. So he beat Matt Hughes. Big deal. Hughes should have retired after his second loss to GSP. Everyone knows that. Frankie beat him twice and worked his monkey ass. Johns a tough SOB and BJ not going to show up. He's gotten lazy and maybe a little bit later down the road he might get it back, but not this fight.

And I love the way they show him knocking Hughes out. Like its a big deal. He beat someone who has been considering retiring for a couple years. When you start to consider retiring from the sport. You should. You start to doubt yourself.

Who did Penn lose to..really ask yourself GSP and Edgar,wait the champs.Its ridiculous how people think losing to GSP or Edgar is bad,(does that mean Faber should retire when Cruz beats him?)Can Fitch take Penn down with his lack of stand up,GSP took him down because he confuses Penn with combinations to set up a take down.I think Fitch is too slow.Early KO by Penn just an opinion no hate mail.