The Long Road Back for Brock Lesnar
Posted on October 28, 2010, 12:36 PM by scottiej86Brock Lesnar has now suffered two defeats in his career, and many people wonder how and even if he will recover from his most recent loss at the hands of Cain Velasquez. To answer this question some are looking back to how he responded from his first defeat versus Frank Mir. Unfortunately it's not that simple. His first loss came in his UFC debut where he had accomplished nothing and was in search of everything. When Brock tapped in his debut he only had one previous professional fight under his belt and a whole heap of expectations on his shoulders. Fast forward roughly two and a half years, four wins inside the octagon, the UFC Heavyweight Championship and the scene has changed drastically for the former professional wrestler. The one-sided beat down that Cain put on Lesnar at UFC 121 not only dethrone Lesnar (as Velasquez's shirt prominently reads) but also removed him from possible consideration for an immediate or even not too distant future rematch with the champion.
Following UFC 121 it is clear that Brock Lesnar's image as the heavyweight wrecking machine needs to be rebuilt and thrusting him into a rematch with Cain could have harmful ramifications. First, there is no reason to believe that a rematch with Velasquez would result in anything different then the first go around and secondly another defeat of that magnitude could damage both Lesnar's in ring image and his confidence. In the post UFC 121 environment it is in the best interest of both the fighter and the UFC to build Brock back to his former status as top contender and main event headliner. In order to accomplish this Lesnar will need to be willing to work his way through a handful of UFC heavyweight contenders to both show he is worthy of a shot at the title and to help him to improve his current skill set. Before beginning this next segment it is important to note that I do not think that Brock should not have a handpicked series of opponents to help the UFC falsify Lesnar's return to title legitimacy and that a potential title shot should be only granted after a challenger deservedly earns such an honour. Now without further delay lets breakdown the former champion’s path back to the gold.
The Opponent: In Brock's first fight he will need an opponent that will allow him to test his stand-up skills but also give him the opportunity to use his ground skills should things go badly for him on the feet. Enter Cheick Kongo, Kongo is a UFC veteran that has constantly been pushing for a shot at the title but has been unable get himself the big win needed to claim the number one contender roll and a win over Brock could accomplish just that. Kongo is a talented striker with 19 career knockouts, but as demonstrated versus Cain Velasquez, he has difficulty dealing with a talented grappler with the calibre of skill that Lesnar possesses.
How it might play out: This fight could probably be billed as a co main event with a strong matchup as the PPV headliner. Marketing this as Lesnar's return to the Octagon should be enough to drum up interest in the fight no matter who his opponent is. Now looking at the in ring breakdown I see Kongo being tentative in his attack for fear of being taken down and pounded by the superior wrestler. Kongo's tentative approach to this fight should provide Brock with openings to work on stand-up skills in a real fight something that can be difficult to emulate in the gym. As mentioned before, if Brock were to begin to get the worst of the exchanges he should have no trouble putting Kongo on his back and working the ground and pound to either a decision or stoppage victory.
The Outcome: This fight may actually provide two important outcomes for the UFC. First a Brock win pushes his record to 6-2 and helps to rebuild his image as a contender. Secondly, Kongo seems to be one of the least favourite fighters in the eyes of the public and the UFC giving him his walking papers could be on the horizon. A one-sided drubbing will help to lessen Kongo's status as a top heavyweight should he opt to sign with a UFC competitor and only one win in his last five fights would be motive enough for his release. With Kongo’s plummeting popularity this matchup would give Brock a chance to play the role of fan favourite and a win would help Brock to begin his assent and set him up for his next opponent.
The Opponent: Lesnar/Mir III is going to happen and not as a result of this articles, so it would be foolhardy not to include it as a part of this breakdown. A fight between Frank and Brock could be booked as either the main event with a solid set of fights to accompany it or it could again fill the role of co-main event with a title fight as the headliner. Either way this matchup will give all involved what they want; Mir will have his chance to fulfil his borderline obsessive want of facing Lesnar again, Brock will be given an opportunity to move up the ranks with another win, the fans will be treated to a third instalment of Mir/ Lesnar trash talking and finally the UFC will be able to remain another month after Lesnar, maybe Brockgust or Lestember.
How it might play out: Well, we've had the two instalments to build this response on already so here goes. Mir will try to do as much striking as he possibly can before Lesnar takes him down and does his best impression of a 10-year old playing whack-a-mole at the fair. If Frank can't submit him, but is able to get up or survive to the bell this process will be repeated again until Brock renders him unconscious. In the end I expect Brock will get another 'W' and put this trilogy to bed once and for all.
The Outcome: Mir looked disinterested in his fight with CroCop so if anything another shot at Lesnar should fire him up and if he were to get a win in this fight he becomes a legitimate title contender again. For Brock, an impressive high profile win over Mir coupled with the Kongo win should help the former champ to put the Velasquez defeated in the rear-view mirror. But this fight alone is not enough to make Brock the next title challenger. He will need at least one more win to put himself back in the hunt, and the more wins he secures prior to fighting for the title will offer insulation for a potential defeat in his next shot at the title.
The Opponent: Having just taken care of one rematch Brock will need to square off with another opponent from the past and this will be his biggest test since he lost his title. Shane Carwin was really the first fighter to expose Brock's inability to take punch and this fight will serve as a measuring stick. Carwin too needed to undergo his own rebuilding project and if he has successfully accomplished this, a fight with Brock could be a booked as number one contender's match and main event. This fight will serve as a measuring stick to see if Brock is truly deserving of his rematch.
How it might play out: If Brock has not improved his and stand-up by bell time or at least his ability to avoid taking big shots this fight could be a repeat of the last, fortunately for him Lesnar won the last time these two met. Essentially it was Carwin's stamina that decided the last fight as Brock locked in an arm trianlged on Shane who put up the resistance equivalent to that of a grappling dummy. This fight will be won by the fighter that has improved the most; Shane's cardio versus Lesnar's stand-up skills. I think that the more likely outcome will be Brock improving just enough to avoid Shane's attack and keep the fight going long enough for Carwin to gas again. Furthermore, Shane will probably look to pace himself in this fight and avoid gassing out. A less aggressive Carwin could have openings for Lesnar to put him on his back and do some significant damage. If this plays out in this manner Brock will more than likely be put into a title fight with the current champ.
This is just a basic breakdown of how Brock might attempt to return to UFC prominence. In the end there are many other options that Brock could consider if he desires to continue his career in the world of combat sports or not. Seeing as that Brock would need to remove a limb or two to cut enough weight to get down to light heavy weight that’s not an option. Brock's desire to be an alpha male on top of the biggest hill will probably prevent him from leaving the UFC to compete for a less popular organization (not to mention his UFC contract). Vince McMahon and the WWE should probably be ruled out based on both Lesnar’s distaste for the heavy demands of the WWE schedule and his want of real competition.
Brock could retire, but doing so on the downside of his title run will probably not sit well former champ. During the UFC 121 matchup between Gabriel Gonzaga and Brendan Schaub, Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan discussed the importance of training in a camp that will push a fighter to always improve. Brock is the top dog at his DeathClutch training centre, which tells me that in most situations Brock is not being pushed to improve as a fighter. Brock likes to train privately and in an environment focussed on him, he may need to change this is he wants to take his training to the next level. It could be difficult to find fighters to push a guy like Lesnar, but as shown last Saturday night they do exist. In the end the only person that can decide Brock’s fate is Brock himself. Lesnar is no doubt a gifted athlete with lots of skills; but the biggest detriment to Brock’s ability to return might not be his opponents but what lies between his ears.
Photos: FoxSports.com
Comments
I don't really see it as a"long road" back for Brock. One or two wins and he's right back in the title picture.
Plus he's only fought top guys (except his first fight), and only lost two of the best HW's in the world.
I would be surprised if he wasn't champion again at some point in the future.
i personaly would rather see brock take the long road back he needs to builds his skills and be allowed to make mistakes he cant do either when he is fighting top five guys. brock main problem is his inexperince he was thrust into the spotlight and hyped up. the result was a guy with zero amatuer fights and only a few pro fight competiting at the highest levels and it finaly caught up with him. his next fight should be either ben rothwell or cheik congo maybe both before he gets back to fighting top guys
brock vs big nog. I wanna see it. gonzaga even.... the kongo fight would be a good start though...
Brock just need 2 keep it push'n, he dont need 2 go backwards and fight these 2 dumptrucks.
Gonzaga just got realeased.
are you ****ing normal or mentally disturbed? Big Nog, cmon you moron. The nog arent even close to title holders anymore. they gatekeepers. I think they should move down in weight class because simply.....they are outclassed the HW division. they should try LHW.
little nog IS at 205 moranus
I agree CageRage, the way I see it is that hes prolly going to fight Frank Mir next and then someone like Carwin for a title shot
Nice article, for me i want to see Brock fight new people I would be interested in Kongo. Mir i think we all know the outcome, maybe Shane Cawin, but i would like to see him fight some other HW maybe a Big Nog, and Roy Nelson, Gilbert Yvel, John Madsen. Give Brock some variety.
i believe he will be champion again......
in the wwe.
I see at least 1 year off. Brock needs to improive his Striking. That is what cost him the fight. Cain handed him a CAN-OF-WHOOP-ASS!
Brock won't be champ as long as Cain is around. He outclassed him everywhere in that cage.
Great article but lets not forget about roy nelson.
Lol, you sure are fixated on that fight huh?!
I think Brock vs Roy would be a great match up they both got good chin ill give Roy the striking advantage but Brock will have the wrestling plus gnp unless Brock seriously works on his striking which o thought he would do after the carwin fight he should really work on that as well as having a better game plan than to bumrush which does not work on every fighter Roy nelson needs to use his mind more than his big belly I don't think that would work against brock and his striking may be good but not powerful enough to knock Brock out his subs would be his last resort but that's if he could get Brock down or try to submit from the bottom all in all I think Brock would come out with the win.
yea i agree with most of what youre saying, read my article "battle of the stepping stones: Brock Lesnar vs roy nelson"
Hey you think Brock should fight Roy Nelson?
It's not a long road back. He's a rookie who lost to Cain. It doesn't set him back much.
Pony just curious he went from being the best HW fighter to a rookie now for you.
ston3 has been Brock's biggest supporter. As much as I want to laugh about the whole thing, I can't because WE ALL have ate our words at some point on this site.
I understand why ppl might be saying its not a long road back because the guy only lost one fight and he is relatively new to mma. But if they rush him back into another big fight and he gets wrecked again that could be all she wrote for him.
Yea I agree with both sides of this debate. You are definitely correct and from a business stand-point it wouldn't be smart to put him back in there with the wrong guys and have him suffer irreparable damage to his image. (Fedor vs Werdum anyone?)
On the other hand, Brock is a huge draw and the guys he has beaten since joining the promotion, including capturing the title, make him an automatic contender upon his return.
In the end, I hope that the decision will be Brock's and I hope its the right one. First, I think he needs to take some time off and just train. Once he feels comfortable again, step in there with a guy somewhere in between both scenarios. Which, as much as I do not care to see it, I think Mir offers the perfect balance. He is not the style of fighter Brock has had trouble with (aside from his debut of course), however losing to Mir would not be something to be to embarrassed about. Its marketable and for some reason fans want to see it.
@ JS
The one argument out weighs the other in this instance, JS. As a huge draw, the UFC needs to protect Brock. Subsequently, I think giving him some lesser fights would be the better long term view.
As to his fighting Mir - I have no big desire to see that fight, right now and if he wins, what does it prove? That he can out wrestle FM and pummel him on he ground? We already know this. The only reason that fight should happen, would be if it had title ramifications. And that is the only reason. Mir's career should not be used as some kind of "make work program", for Lesnar's shortcomings and failures. As I see it right now, FM is one fight away from fighting for the title; why should he put that on the line to help (out) Lesnar? One win for Mir should put him at the doorstep of the winner of CV / JDS. One win over anyone, including Mir, is not / would not, put Lesnar in contention.
That would be my view of it, at least.
It'll be interesting to see how it (all) unfolds.
Cheers,
WC
FM was close to finishing Brock in the second fight. Brock even admitted he was seeing stars for a few seconds after the knees to his head. To assume FM has no chance against Brock is utter nonsense. they are 1 - 1, and just because brock gave him a hiding from top position does not guarantee an easy win if they meet again.
Thats how I felt about it as well azzkika. I am in no way saying that Brock would run over Mir... Instead, I was saying that its a marketable fight (even tho I am not particularly interested), and if Brock were to lose to Mir it would not be something to be too embarassed about. As far as Frank Mir being close to a title shot, wouldn't a win over the guy who just now lost the title make him next in line?
Agree with you sapizo. It's one thing getting subbed by Mir and a totally different thing getting pounded out by someone so much smaller than you. His confidence must be shaken a little. Who knows though because he is one ****y dude.
Brock is a rookie who fought nothing but top names in his first 7 fights (well, after the first fight), and he showed a lot of progress since stepping in the ufc. You guys don't think he will dominate again in the future, when he's considered a veteran who has increased his skill set from every aspect?
this would be a good time
for Lesner's team
to start building his record like he was just a mere fighter
and not like a ready-made superstar
yeah Kongo, Struve, Browne, Rothwell etc.
ala Joe Louis' bum of the month chain
run off half a dozen or so wins,
fight at least three if not five or six times in a year or 18 months
then if he is successful
take back the belt using his hard-earned new skills
yeah thats what im saying if he faces another big contender in his next fight and doesnt win then hes 5-3 and now hes gettin dangerously close to a .500 record. Get some wins under his belt, regrow his confidence. if he could get 3-4 wins, move to 9-2 before gunning for the title again that would be far better then fighting right away for the title potentially dropping another one
I would love to see this actually happen... So much potential to be wasted by allowing himself to be exploited for cash. Guess it depends on what he decides he wants out of his fighting career...
"So much potential to be wasted by allowing himself to be exploited for cash" - Thats exactly how I feel about the situaton. I'd feel a bit bitter towards the UFC if they went straight to the big PPV matchups for Brock like MIr vs Lesnar 3 and then a Lesnar vs Carwin rematch and what not. Even if Lesnar wants it done that way.
u should be his manager, then this would not have happened to him. poor guy
Regarless how he chooses to progress he needs better stand up skills and confidense under fire. The guy is a moster he should be removing heads with his jab, yet he looks like a fish out of water on his feet.
it sounds like the main point of this article is that lesnar needs to be given some cans to rip threw. preferably striker cans so he can double leg tackle them if they start to beat him up. wash rinse repeat untill he gets ok at stand up.
i personally doubt that lesnar will win the title back. he is about 33, a little old to be green in the sport and on the road to the title. i think he will improve alot over the next yr or two if the UFC gives him room to grow. tho the UFC could keep throwing him at top lvl guys and he could get stomped again.
Overeem would kill lesnar
I really don't care to see Mir vs Lesnar 3, unless its a match that has to be made because of extremely heavy title implications, or of course if it is for the belt somewhere down the road (which is definitely a possibility if MIr can get there before Lesnar). I'm being selfish though cause I would like to see MIr vs Valasquez or even Mir vs JDS. With Carwin out for a bit and the HW title picture unclear beyond the JDS valasequez fight I think if Mir gets another win under his belt against a Roy Nelson type of guy, he could be next in line. THEN Carwin comes back (assuming he has surgery and is out for a while) and fights the loser of JDS vs Cain. As for Brock that would mean 2 or 3 more wins before he get a crack at the title, which I think is best for everybody.
Just to add to the Brock situation since this article is all about him, I think his next fight should be against Ben Rothwell. Rothwell last fought in june but tore his acl or somthin so hes out 9 months which would be good timing for Brock cause imo he needs 5 or 6 month layoff. Assuming Brock wins that fight, his next oppenent could basically be any guy floating around the title picture.
@ dray12
I agree wholeheartedly, with your post(s). The only thing I'd add would be I'd have Mir fight CV, as the first title defense. I think it would be a very interesting fight. I know one thing, Mir wouldn't get punked the way Lesnar did. I can understand and live with the JDS choice and it'll be an okay fight, but I think CV will own him. On the other hand, FM, style wise, would be a much tougher fight for CV and a fight he could easily lose.
Didn't Mir get punked by carwin!!!!! Pretty sure I saw that beat down!! And the way Cains hands looked against Brock!!!!! Frank will turtle like Brock did!!! Maybe he will land more than two punches against Cain like he did against Shane!!!!
Lol, styles make fights.... Cain and Carwin are two different fighters.
Hey guys thanx for the comments and feedback. If you guys wouldnt mind clicking on the banner at the bottom going to my youtube page and then either selecting my UFC 121 video or NFL Week 7 vid and click on the ads that come up. I do my vids from free but this way i get a small amount of finacial return. Thanx in advance.
@ scottie
Did you write this article or just post it? If you wrote the article, then I apologize for my dismissive tone, at the top of my post; it was rude. The article was originally posted under UFC News, with no poster associated with it. I believed it to be some anonymous analysis and at liberty to take liberty. So, if you did write it - I apologize, for the quip at the beginning of my post.
Cheers,
Wing Chun
yeah I did write this article, hey man no worries I wrote my opinion and you are fully entitled to yours dude If everyone agreed this would a boring discussion board.
@ Scottie
Cheers, man. And the article was a thoughtful piece on a very relevant and timely subject.
Respectfully,
Wing Chun
This article begins with stating the obvious - that Lesnar's image needs to be rebuilt and that it's in the best interest of both Lesnar and the UFC to do so - well, dah! And that he'll have to do it against a handful of opponents - dah, again.
It then makes a phantom argument about a rematch. I have heard no one mention anything about a rematch, immediate or otherwise, so why raise it as an issue? There is not, nor was there ever going to be, a rematch. Why would there? Does anyone doubt what the outcome would be? Was there any dubiousness in CV's stomping of Lesnar? Clearly, there are no questions revolving around The Champs victory; it was both decisive and dominant.
The article offers up 3 fighters as possible options to help reclamate Lesnar's career. Of those names the only serious one is Cheick Kongo. CK would be a reasonable starting point, for BL's road of return.
As to the other two names on the list, Mir & Carwin, I just think that's a bad idea. Mir has the advantage (now) of knowing how Lesnar reacts to getting hit hard and Frank hits hard; remember "the knee" in their last fight or his stomping of CC @ the end of their abysmal fight? Frank is not a walk in the park and comes with no guarantee of a victory and Lesnar needs one. Mir also understands Lesnar's "one trick" and if he could stay away from it and keep it standing, Lesnar loses; badly. And let us also acknowledge that Mir is an improving fighter. Another reason not to schedule that fight (right now) would be because it's a bad career move for Mir (as well) and the UFC (also) has a vested interest in him, as a fighter. Lesnar and Mir need to meet again, but not now; career wise, it's a bad fight for both.
As to Carwin - it's laughable. Carwin will not make the same mistake twice. That would just be one dumb-ass career move for Lesnar right now; that is, if the intention is to get a few wins under BL's belt. The only chance Lesnar wold have in a rematch with Carwin, would be the hope that he gasses - again. Other then that, Brock would "0" chance of beating SC.
Lesnar should fight guys like Pat Barry or Big Country, guys of a lesser calibre; guys he stands a better chance of victory over and one's where he can test hist stand-up, because that's what he needs to improve. We know he can wrestle. We know he's strong. However, can he stand up and does he have any real heart? That's the critical issue, here.
One guy on that "lesser caliber" list (though) that I would not give Lesnar, would be Matt Mitrione. I believe (right now) that "Meat" would be too much for Lesnar. I have yet to see a HW "move" as well as MM does; he's very light on his feet and moves more like a LHW or MW, then a HW and he packs a lot of power in his hands and feet and he throws with bad intention(s). I think there's a high probability that Matt would be able to keep it standing and KO Brock. And a loss to anyone on the "lesser" list, would be devastating to BL's career. He needs a win; preferably one delivered via stand-up and more preferably a KO, via stand-up.
I guess you have some valid points, but I think your arguments have a few holes too. For the rematch for the title, in most cases former Champions usually get title shots remember how badly Anderson Silva beat down Franklin and they gave him another shot (with a similar outcome). Im sure there are other examples I just cant recall, so because no one has said it you would have to be crazy not to think that the UFC isnt thinking about it.
Just because Mir knows that Brock doesnt like getting hit hard doesnt mean he can take advantage of it. I dont think he gameplaned for the first 2 fights by wanting to lovetap Brock and then hope he went away he just wasnt able to hit him before Lesnar put him on his back. Yes I remember the knee, all one of them that Mir got off before he was back down on the ground. It is awully tricky to hit someone hard when you are being dry humped around the mat. If Mir hasnt improved his takedown defense then Lesnar prolly does the same thing he did the last two times, he just needs to avoid the sub.
With Carwin, I dont really call it a mistake, he was physically unable to do anything after the first round. Brock weathered the strom and Shane gassed, if he improves upon that then sure he prolly would be able to beat Lesnar. But if he hasnt Brock will just need to avoid the big shots and wait for Shane to fade. If Shane slows down and picks his spots Brock might be able to get off his back so that might not work for Carwin either. The reason Cain had success was because he was able to hit him hard and do it a fast pace for an unrelenting amount of time, Carwin can do all of those without running out of steam. I dont know why you would say he has 0 chance of beating him since Carwin has done nothing since his last fight to show he is any different cardio wise.
I dont see Lesnar fighting Barry seeing as they have been training together for some time now so that probably wont happen.
I dunno just my two cents.
Great article, well thought out and direct, no bullshit here, just facts.
I do think Cain should fight mir if mir beats Lesner, but i doubt he can.
Dude i cant wait 4 ur next thoughts, keep em commin!!!
Brock shuld retire befor geting killed he is taking to much punishment.He shuld fight some weak figter like Randy or Mir
I think its really to early to say how this will play out. Personally I image he will get right back in the mix.
I doubt we'll see any of the rematch situations (cain mir carwin) until he's fought a couple other guys.
I don't think anyone even wants to see tomato cans in the ring
with Lesner
but maybe guys on their way down
and guys on their way up
yeah I think Nog would be a good match
Nog could still have some dnager in him
and I forgot about Barry that would be good
and as for Mittrione, oh that would be good
I respect Brock Lesnar as a fighter but if he ever reaches the number one contender spot again he will not defeat Cain.
Brock will never be a UFC champion again. His size and wrestling is the only thing that gives him an advantage. He has horrible striking and even if his striking inproved he won't strike as fast because of his size. He was suppose to lose to Carwin but Carwin punched himself out and gassed. If Carwin was in better shape Brock would of been KO'd in the 2nd round.
I want to see Cain vs. Overeem
Great article