TUF 13 Finale Recap: Guida turns Showtime into No-time

I agree 100% an but you know how North American MMA is scored.....

compleatly agree, there is no way a takedown should count as more points then countless sub attempts



before anyone says we are all pettis nuthuggers etc look at the fight, guida was the only fighter in trouble in the fight. emphasis on takedown needs to lessen

I. Effective Grappling

1. The Judge shall recognize the value of both the clean takedown and active guard position.

2. The Judge shall recognize that a fighter who is able to cleanly takedown his opponent, is effectively grappling.

3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.

4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling.

5. A Judge shall recognize that the guard position alone shall be scored neutral or even, if none of the preceding situations were met.(items 2-4)

6. A Judge shall recognize that if the fighters remain in guard the majority of a round with neither fighter having an edge in clean striking or effective grappling, (items 2-4), the fighter who scored the clean takedown deserves the round.

7. A clean reversal is equal to a clean takedown in effective grappling

a sub attempt should count about the same as a missed head kick why on earth should we reward fighters for failure guida out landed pettis on the feet and dominated the ground game

3-5 near finishes vs. 0 = the guy wit 0 winning???

For starters, Pettis would be on his back for minutes at a time before he threw up a submission. All of Guida's work trying to break him down and beat him up should not be negated because of Pettis throwing up his legs in a half hearted triangle attempt.



Next, in some attempts he wasn't even close. Just because Pettis throws up his legs does not mean it was anywhere near a submission, there were very few times where Guida was in serious trouble. If you say an "attempt" is just pulling up your legs and putting up a diamond, then people with absolutely zero BJJ knowledge could do it and get points for a "submission attempt".



Essentially if you want to take a risk lying on your back all of the fight, then you better sub him OR outwork him. When Guida fought Sanchez, Diego landed huge elbows from the bottom that likely grabbed him the split decision. It is not impossible to win off your back, but it is harder to stay busy when your opponent is dictating the pace of the fight and controlling you 99% of the time.

@rflynn

Guida won without question. yes i do believe a takedown should not be worth much if you can't do much with it. but i also believe a submission attempt means nothing. if you don't get the tap. then you did nothing, did no damage, didn't tire him out. it's worthless if you don't get the tap. just like a takedown is worthless if the guy gets right back up. If Guida was in trouble then Pettis was in just as much trouble when Guida was on his back. except that the bell was about to ring. but the point is, it was a dominating victory for Clay. not some controversial decision like you're saying.

A takedown should count no more than a punch.

so your telling me a taking a guy down is worth less than jabbing someone in the face??? You need to take what kind of punch into consideration. If it were a powerful hook that shook the guys world than I agree that should be considered better than a takedown. But than again if you take a guy down and knock the wind out of him with a powerful double leg that should be considered just as good as a hook. Thats the problem with MMA its so hard to say that this should be better than that n so on. You need to take the fight as a whole than judge (like Japanese rules) its the only fair way.

Yeah you are right. I did mean a solid punch vs a solid takedown should count the same. Generally a solid punch does more damage and a solid takedown gains a superior position so even in my opinion.

What???? When did Guida outstrike Pettis?????? What fight were you watching?



Ok.... yet why should we count takedowns that lead to absolutely nothing? I think reversals, sweeps, escapes, submission attempts, etc should be counted too.



Think of it this way (and not some missed head kick), if a wrestler is trying to implement his Lay-N-Pray or Ground-N-Pound strategy and his opponent (whether it be a fellow wrestler or a BJJ practitioner or etc) manages to subdue or neutralize his attack/strategy then how is it not a missed attempt (or head kick) on the part of the fighter who took down his opponent originally?

O plz 2drunk...did u see those nasty shoulder jabs to the mid-section that guida dished out!? Def wasn't a safety 1st game plan... But seriously. Only person in danger 2night was Clay, AP wuz way more active. 4 realz y no love for workin off ur back? Submission attempts by the truck load vs. Putting ur hair in some1's eyes and shoulder jabs?

Yes pettis should be get scored for attempting subs, but Guida should earn eve n more points for easily avoiding them all and staying there to do his work (except armbar that nearly got him)

I definilty see where you are comming from. Pettis had a very active high guard and was constantly working for something. Im a big Jiu Jitsu guy so I enjoyed the chess match on the ground. Where I disagree though is that "Guida just humped his way to a decision". I felt it was a very technical chess match on the ground. One guy using wrestling and the other jiu jitsu. Pettis maintained full guard most of the fight, so the fight was at a nuetral position( IMO). From there its just a judges opinion as to who is making the most of it. I felt it was very close but I agreed with the judging in this case just do to Pettis not pulling the trigger in the stand up and Guidas takedowns.

fully disagree. why you gotta hate on a good wrestler. if he thought he was a better fighter than guida, then he shouldve had the wrestling to match guida's wrestling. WAR GUIDA

although that was pretty funny and clever lol pettis didnt get "greg jacksoned" out of a title shot. his lack of wrestiling skills cost him the fight. BJJ is complicated and you cant base it off attempting submissions, because guidas Sub Defence was clearly better than Pettis's Sub offense. Pettis knew full well how guida was going to fight and its his fault he didnt stop it

takedown takes so much energy and especially grinding, if pettis were so good why just dont stop the takedown to avoid getting scored or complete the submission. people should stick to watching boxing if they dont like american wrestling.

Yeah! I always say that the takedown should be awarded points only if the person does something with it. And not just transitions. Throwing in at least one sub attempt or improving position needs to occur in order for the takedown to have any merit. Otherwise you just eat clock, as we saw in this fight. Guida is like Rashad kinda. Talk all this shit and then play the safe(borderline scared) game...

Like I said way down there. Why is it that a guy who is constantly attacking in a fight no matter where the fight takes place, loses? And.... the guy who is constantly on the defensive win? Does that make sense? Because I can lay on top of you and stop subs, I win? That just blows. He did nothing to even come close to finishing and he tried his best to put me to sleep. Thank God AP was there to bring some excitement to that fight.

couldn't have said it any better, guida made it a bore snore, while pettis tried his best to keep it exciting, but hell you know waht all guida gets is knowing what to do to win no way does he deserve a title shot with that performance imo

Clay Guida vs Jim Miller would be a good fight.

I think the winner bendo miller should get guida then a title shot

Guida should fight 1 more time before he gets his title shot maybe winner of bendo vs miller. Its gonna be a while anyway until Edgar vs Maynard 3 and then he will have to wait till the winner of that heals up.

well, if you score take down defenses in favor of a fighter, then you should score sub defense in favor of a fighter, so that seems it would cancel out since guida defended every time, and with the take downs and constantly on top , thats controlling the fight.

Pettis will do better next time now that he got acquainted with the ufc octagon. I feel like he had a lot of nervousness, butterflies and was not himself. Props to guida for being so tough but he wont survive against maynard or miler imo.

If Pettis kept his distance he would have won in a boring standup fight. To me it seemed like when Pettis tried to get aggresive he was taken down. I know it was only last night but I don't remember every takedown. I think AP was definitely the only guy in that "fight" that tried to finish. I think he showed way more in his loss than Guida did in his win. Yes Guida is smart and did exactly what he should but Pettis showed what an exciting fighter he is. He is a guy I want to see fight more often. He made me a big fan last night. Usually the lay and pray fights are very boring but watching AP work still made the fight interesting.

I agree completely.



Thanks to team " Bros Bang " Jackson and Clay " The Porn-isher " Guida, this fight was definitely porn material, if you're into G-porn.

thats retarted. guida has been fighting in the UFC for a very long time and he was finally presented with the big oppurtunity he was waiting for. he wasnt going to blow it just because there was alot of hype surronding the fight. guida showed that he can put pettis on his butt whenever he wants to, and in this sport thats a way to win a fight, just like getting a KO or a sub. you cant take anything away from guida

I felt the fight was judged correctly. Im a big jiu jitsu guy and I enjoyed watching pettis' active guard, but just like there is submission attempts there is submission defense. Clay defended well using his wrestling and was able to throw in some ground and pound. Along with getting consistant take downs. It definitly was a close fight but pettis couldnt pull the trigger with his stand up and didnt defend well against the take downs. All in all it was a very good chess match and I enjoyed the ground aspect a lot.

To be honest, I'm more disappointed in the title for this article than Pettis' performance.



Guida turns Showtime into No-Time?????

Someone Bam likes!!!!! EVERYONE! BAM LIKES CLAY GUIDA!

I feel Clay is the winner but I also think he put on the performance of his life in there. I think Clay can take the belt with a performance like that and I still feel Pettis can beat Edgar and Maynard. Pettis IMO seemed to have this fight in the bag in his own mind from the begginning and i think it hurt his TDD and preperations for a smaller guy.

Definitely agree, but I also think that alot of wrestlers are seeking this strategy to avoid the other aspects the fight game.



It's harder to establish elite level TDD than one thinks (quite time consuming), and unfortunately this system favors the wrestler over the submission grappler and striker.



I personally think we should add a few more amendments to the scoring system and make it also challenging to the wrestlers who just depend on one strategy to win a fight.



Guida won the fight not only because of his wrestling but because of his submission defense as well. I think Guida could have done a bit more but he's no slacker and Pettis' BJJ is dangerous -- so I'm giving Clay the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah but imagine being able to upkick too. Talk about stupid rules. A guy can dive bomb his fist on your face but you can't use the most effective strike you have off your back.

I think upkicks (along with knees to a grounded opponent, stomps and soccer kicks) is also a great addition. It would open up a whole different landscape in western MMA.

It's a very strange set of rules. I understand no head stomps, no soccer kicks to the face while on the ground but the upkick.... I don't get. You should be able to upkick or kick your opponents face if he is attacking you in the guard. It is how a lot of triangles are set up and makes the wrestler respect your ground skills. It's a defensive strike and has no where near the power of say machida's kick to couture. The difference I guess is you can hold your opponents wrist and kick him in the face. But that's basic bjj. You can always say just stand up and not get into the guard of your opponent.

@edub



I definitely think that AP could have stopped or avoided those takedowns all together. He could have used his distance and threw jabs all night but he was trying to make the fight exciting. I think that was his biggest problem. It was a problem that sucks for the sport of MMA. AP attacked from everywhere and every position in that cage. Clay turned that into a control win (which of course is completely within the rules) and in my opinion did his best to survive. To me it sucks for a fighter to completely be on the defensive for most of the match and still win. How does that even make sense?

As a bjj and Thai guy myself I hate when wrestlers do absolutely nothing with takedowns. This was not one of those fights. I hate dry humping boring ass wrestlers but clay was extremely active. He showed great wrestling and cardio and true domination. Every thing he could do he did.



Petis showed really good bjj and could have ended the night too. Petis looked good here I think he has nothing to be ashamed of that was the best clay guida I have ever seen. The guys a monster and I am not a fan of wrestlers who use the rules to squeak out boring fights. Clay brings it. Give the man some respect

i really wished they kept pettis title for this fight since he was suppose to be joining it with the ufc title and made this a 5 round fight, then and only then would I not argue if guido did the exact same thing for the next two rounds, made some kind of interim title or something you know