Sometimes these things happen in MMA

Sorry Anton but to say last night he proved he is way above the names you mentioned has got to be the most ridiculous sentence i have seen you write. I personally think the fight was a draw last night, Werdum actually lost the fight himself by pulling guard way too much, Overeem was actually ''allowing'' him work the clinch and get off strikes because he knew he wouldn't be knocked out, he was also worried about Werdum pulling guard, and it also presented The Reem with the only opportunity to land strikes because there was no other way he could due to the tactics of Werdum. I'm not ready to jump off The Reemm ''bandwagon'' either but I have to ask you Anton what the hell did you see last night to write he's 'way above Carwin, Mir, Sliva ?

Carwin, Lesnar and Fedor are coming off defeats. Mir and Antonio Silva are slightly behind. Overeem is a Top 3 HW. Period.

I think Werdum trying to pull guard really messed with Overeem's striking and made it hard for him to let his hands go.

I don't think he proved anything, but to say he wasn't fighting good would be ignoring the fact the Verdum simply wasn't engaging him. Verdum did what he wanted to do, and that's fine if your plan is to survive, but if it's to win then he had a piss poor job.

I like how AS had sooo many people hating on him for not jumping into someone elses guard but overeem not only does the same thing, but he gets beat to the punch on multiple occasions on his feet too and there's no real criticism here.



I think werdum EASILY could have won that fight depending on how the judges were feeling. Overeem edged him out by a hair. If judges didnt score as though werdum wasnt pulling guard on purpose, it would have been a blowout.

I gotta agree with mmauk. I still believe there is a big question mark with Allistar as far as him being in the elite, and I def wouldn't put him top 3 heavyweights. For me last night was the first noteworthy test for Overeem place in MMA in some time and was anxious to see how he performed. No doubt Werdum pulling guard constantly messed with Overwem but I still think he could of let his hands and legs go more. All he proved was he was a better striker but Werdum was landin some decently clean shots on the exchanges. I just don't think you can put Ovreem in top 3 Antonuntil "if" he wins the while the grand prix, but last night didn't show menus deserves that ranking just yet.

My biggest problem with Overeem is how many times he got hit here. There were moments where I was even concerned that he may get rocked badly. Werdum clearly improved on striking, and Reem just couldnt land as fast in some of the exchanges and willingly took a series of punches.. This sure showed there is a major diff bewteen K1 striking and MMA striking, cause when you worried about other things like being taken down, it takes alot away from your striking concentration, and you could see reem had a tough time with it, just could not get into his rhythm. And allowing a few punches in from either jdf and cain is enought get knocked down or ko-ed.



Also it seemed that he got gassed, hence decided to human blanket him. Werdum seemed to had success in getting him into his gameplan, i think i noted that the fight was on the ground 50% of the time, werdum couldnt do much there tho, but werdum landed way more strikes too. Definately not a good showing by reem and really exposed weaknesses that guys like jds and cain certainly will exploit. Just dont see him surviving against wrestling of cain, he will tire soon if he doenst really work on his td defence and cardio. Also, he doenst have the best chin neither. Overall I was disappointed in Overeem, im a fan, but a sceptical one thus far. If he wins big foot i'll be a alot more confident in him.

A draw? Are you serious? I scored the first two rounds 10-8 to Overeem and I actually thought the fight should have been stopped when Werdum was taking 30 sec to get back to his feet.



It's been pretty obvious to me for a long time that he is way above Carwin and Mir in skill but Silva has looked very good so there I am not sure.



Still overall I agree with the article .

My bad wih the typos, typing only iPhone.

Overeem also got in a number of throws and takedowns and had dominant position on the ground.

anton thers no way overated is better than those names you just said... overeem even thinks hes the best hw striker in da world. jus because he won k1.. JOKE IF YOU ASK ME..werdum even out struck him..

You need to learn basics then try again.

he hasnt been tested against a wrastler yet. i dont think hed sprwal so easy with cain or brock

He is better, than those names, simply because he got a win. And that is what matters

K-1 is no joke, when overeem was fighting in that tournament he was going up against the best strikers in the world and he beat them all and being the 1st to do it as an mma fighter. Thats no joke

K1 is no joke my friend

people ranked Werdum in the top 5, Reem clearly beat him. why is there a discussion? he fought an intelligent gameplan

all i can say to this is, where are the idiots who rated werdum top 5?

there's easily 15-20 hw that are better than him, AS LONG AS THEY DONT GO INTO HIS GUARD.. cause im sorry but, werdum's takedowns are 2nd to my kittens. and if he cant PUT someone where he wants a fight to be, he has to hope someone is DUMB enough to go there on their own. Which, will no longer happen. Werdum = done and that's it. He will not beat another top 10 hw after fedor ever again, mark my words. someone who goes into a fight, scared to fight at maybe 60-70% of possible positions (feet, against the cage, clinch), and only rely's on about 10% (having someone in your guard).. is just not even worthy of being an mma fighter if you ask me. He should go back to abu dhabi and just compete in those, do what he's good at, and what he WANTS to compete at. Just like james toney should keep his fat ass boxing, werdum should get back to bjj only fights. become the gi and no gi legend or something, rather than embarrass yourself rolling around like the little monkey guy in the movie blood sport in mma matches. TOTAL embarrassment, I would refund those 200 customers at my gym who joined after he subbed fedor, and call it quits.

You have replied with your ''general opinion'' which i don't have a problem with what you just said is fine with me. BUT you said in your article he PROVED last night he was top 3. I totally disagree, the fight was awful for both fighter's i just don't see any positives performance wise for The Reem.

i think werdum should refund the fans from his purse. That was embarassing. Overeem looked far from impressive. Brute strength indeed but he looked sluggish. agasint a fast paced power heavyweight like JDS or Cain he would get beaten with relative ease.

He would have laid out Nelson?! Has anyone seen Nelson fight? I could hit that guy with a baseball bat and he still wouldn't go to sleep. Overeem wasn't that impressive on the feet. Wasn't Cro Cop a bad ass in K-1 too? Just because you are a K-1 champ doesn't mean you are the best striker in MMA!

Why is everyone comparing to Roy Nelson? Styles make fights so you can't make a fantasy theory up based on your opinion of how another fighter would do against Roy Nelson when they really haven't fought and present it as facts. It doesn't work like that, it's not like mathematics, styles make fights ppl. Reem ain't top 3 until they face the top competition and reem has hardly been facing top MMA competition lately besides his most recent lackluster win against Werdum.

judging by the response to your comment id say other share my view. overeem did look sluggish, wether it be due to the level of oppositin werdum provided but if he was to fight like that against Cain or JDS i think it could make for a short night. Alistairs been k.o'd before, and iv seen him rocked aswel since he put on such mass (Badr Hari K1 match in 2009) so i think with JDS combinations and cains ground n pound alistair would struggle if he didnt up his game...just MY opinion though :)

And that's goes for any fighter not just Overeem. Until a fighter is fighting ALL the top competition it's impossible to rank them that high.

did you hit your head Anton? At this point I think Overeem is ahead of Fedor and Lesnar(though he hasnt fought much at all). Mir, Carwin, and Bigfoot all can take Overeem down and wear him down. I love me some Overeem but to say hes way ahead of those fighters is beyond ridiculous. I think the Reem/Werdum fight was one of those uncomfortable hilarious goofy fights that dont truly show off either fighter's potential. Cant wait until Overeem fights Bigfoot so we settle Overeems place in the rankings

Lets all agree that Reem is the best HW striker in both SF and UFC but.. you CANT call him Top 3 HW.. he showed good take down defense against Werdum but his Take down attempts were telegraphed and kinda poorly timed IMO.. so i wanna see more from Reem against a better Wrestler...by the 3rd rd Reem looks little gassed.. he WAS being smart not getting into a BBJ match with werdum but he was just going for power punches the whole time. i wanna see more complex strikes. set those bombs up with jabs and leg kicks to keep him guessing..

Reem also isnt well rounded enough to be called TOP 3..

fedor isnt what he used to be but he was an master over all figher. dangerous on ground. striking. good cardio. wrestling. sambo..

he was nasty at them all..

hes not what he used to be but.. reem needs more work.. maybe even drop 10lbs.. i think hes too big. i dont thnk he cant fight 5 rds so big..

I rarely login so as to post a comment, but, I felt it was necessary this time around.... first of all, sorry but you're nuts anton...if you think that performance last night indicates he's a top 3 HW, your opinion if horribly biased. He was almost outstruck by someone the WORLD knows has almost 0 stand up ability, while im sure it wouldn't be the case in a k-1 match, (im sure this was influenced a little by him being worried to open up a bit because werdum would shoot on him, or try his poor guard pulling tricks. However, if you think, that cain or JDS would not be able to make him look bad on the feet for this reason, you're wrong. While he may not be quite as worried to hit the ground with either of those 2 than he was with Werdum, once he realized he didn't have an answer (particularly for cain's) takedowns, that would ALSO make him hesitant to throw.. most likely kicks out the window entirely, and he'd pull the same turtle'ish defense he pulled with Werdum. Aside from that, I'm just going to go ahead and say it, I firmly believe his k-1 title is a little BS, I can't be the only one who found that entire GP played out a little 'funny'? I dont believe reem BEAT 3 top quality, non injured, world class kickboxers there, while the rest of you seem to think he did. IT reminded me very much of UFC 5 or so, when some no name alternate police officer, by the name of... .steve jennum... saying overeem is a k-1 champion is much akin to saying jennum is a ufc champion, while he won the 'title', it was hardly EARNED in my opinion... so yes, i'll get some heat but, i really don't believe allistairs striking is as good as everyone says it is... and he's actually quite slow and stiff in my opinion... i think overeem = overhyped, and if ever he faces a DECENT striker (to emphasize im not saying positively cain or jds is a better striker) but someone who's a bigger stronger with some wrestling credentials, im sorry but overeem will look mighty turd in the ufc. Just watch and see... there will be no reem-toss against cain, there will be no pulling guard either. Granted, it's all conjecture at this point, but, at least im willing to admit it.. not make some , slightly over dramatic claim that he's top 3. period.



top 10, absolutely, top 5, most likely, but i REALLY will not say that, or any past performance, warrants that claim, at all.



let's not forget, he gasses in rd 3, and there wasnt much 'fight' to gas about, he had 10 seconds of recovery time, every 10 seconds that werdum dropped to his back n took time to get up... imagine a guy PRESSING HIM for 3 5min rounds , let alone 5.. sorry anton' we agree to disagree and will only know in the future sometime who was right... but,ill make the crazy prediction, BigFOOT WILL BEAT OVEREEM, then ill coem back n say i told u so ok?



and hes not monster wrestler, but i think his size n ground control will do it

huh? what are you talking about? I dont mean:

"I cant wait to see Overeem destroy Bigfoot to show that hes truly the #1 HW"



I mean:

"I cant wait until they fight because their fight is looking like it can be close, and it will show where Overeem is....if he loses then hes bottom of the 10 possibly. If he wins hes top 5 or around there."

Im a big Reem fan ... not a blind nut hugger .. but a fan.

He seems to have the Carwin type cardio. Not to mention he gets hit alot during standup. Didnt look very good at all.



Velasquez could outlast a room full of reems and carwins (IMO).

Looks like JDS might be the best contender after all.

i seriously dont know why reem gets all the blame , since werdum was the one without a good gameplan, he coudnt get reem to the ground , so he begged him to jump in his guard.



Cant blame reem , see how it worked out for Fedor

I was pretty surprised at how much Werdum was landing on Overeem, he did land some power shots and throw Fabricio around a lot but Werdum seemed to get the better of the exchanges

This fight displayed how much the threat of a takedown and a good ground game opens up striking. Reem's gameplan was to stuff Werdum's takedown, and that is why Werdum scored so much standing.



While I certainly believe a fighter should fight to his strengths, this is MMA, and I expected both fighters to fight both on the ground and standing. Werdum's BJJ skills are useless without a takedown, and dragging his opponent into guard, or begging his opponent to dive into his guard put off a lot of fans, and I believe rightly so.



The surprise of the night was Werdum's striking--and he connected much more frequently than I had believed he would.



Both fighters seemed winded early, especially Fabricio--Werdum had trouble getting up from the canvas so often, and took his sweet time--which I don't believe looked good in the judges eyes.



The take-away from this fight is that both fighters looked more human and beatable.

Excellent overview Codemaster

Yeah coudnt agree with him more

this is my opinion if Reem fought like he did last night ... a great striker like Dos Santos no way Reem would win i do like Reem if they fight he better b on his game

yeah i think if he would fight JDS, he would dominate 1st round, but loose the 2nd and may be even get ko'd in 3rd, because of his not so good conditioning. I dont think that 40lbs of whopass give him that much of an advantage, its the skillset that matters really.

I agree that Overeem would likely beat Dos Santos but there are other reasons not to fight a particular sport. I know a guy that was a champion in a regional MMA circuit and probably could have had a decent career in mma at the very least. Unfortunately he doesn't like fighting mma so he has gotten into kick boxing and boxing. Sometimes it comes down to preference.

Yeah and Overeem isnt a good striker..



common man

He doesnt trow punches in bunches like a crazy man , the time he punches, he punched really hard.

Thats how he won k1 aswell.



he didnt trew the most punches there aswell

Im sorry, but i just think its totally gay when a BJJ fighter lays on his back and invites you into his guard. Sure...thats your game, but if you cant take the guy down...force him into your guard, then dont lay there and ask him to join you.

Anyone can have a strategy until they get hit.



Q. What had to be true for Werdum to fight as he did?

- He didn't have the strength, cardio or ability to stand with Overeem for the full fight.

- Yes, he put together some good combos, but on a deeper level knew that if he tried too many he would get caught and severely punished.



I am not a mind reader and cannot say the above is true, but it seems pretty logical.



I like both fighters, had a slight bias for Alistair on this one. I am sure most fellow fighters on this site have come up against an unusual opponent or a usual opponent with a highly unorthodox strategy.



As mentioned in the article, Alistair had a lot on the line, so did Werdum, I suggest that Werdum lost the fight more than Alistair won it.



The fight won't be remembered for the right reasons, but this is a step closer to a shot at the UFC title in 2012.

Excellent comment.

lol one day every ones saying the SF HW division is better than the UFC's and the next their shouting 'overrated'. IMO the winner of the tourny is still below junior and cain in the HW rankings.

I hope this is just one of Reems bad days cause if he does this bad against Big Foot he is going to get smashed into grounded up horse meat

I disagree, big foot will try and trade with overeem and not rely on his bjj as such which will allow overeem to focus less on a takedown and more on his kickboxing which after all is top quality

Dos Santos would destroy either one of these two.Fact.

True. He already destroyed one of them in just over a minute and he'd to the same to the other, if they get to fight.

You mean like that time Wanderlei Silva KOd Chuck Liddel?

Agreed. JDS would play right into Overeems game.

got to disagree with you mate. Overeem got hit way too many times by what I would class a non- striking fighter. Give JDS those sort of chances and its gonna be a short night.

that fight was absolutely disgusting. I'd rather watch a **** fight than see that fight again. It blows my mind that BOTH of 'em were acting like p*ssies



So now i ask all the reem fans.....how the hell is he supposed to beat cain or jds? Seems to me that reem is just a striker....a striker that threw like 5 punches against the deadly, master-grappler+ bjj god, all powerful (like my sarcasm?) werdum. Cain would take him down and erase his face......and JDS would most definitely out strike him.



Sorry guys, i can't help but hate on reem after this fight. Don't give me that "strategy" crap. Cuz at least when the true P4P fighters utilize their strategies they AT LEAST dominate in some way.

"Sorry Kid there's a reason why he's in MMA "

Yeah, because he wants more than a handful of die hard kick boxing fans to know who he is. JDS and the Reem have very different styles of stand-up. Junior is a boxer and Overeem is a kick boxer. There is a difference and it it would make a for a very interesting fight. JDS also put Werdum away in devastating fashion, something Overeem could not do in 3 rounds.

As far as I'm concerned, Alistair has still not been tested by the current crop of elite heavy weights. Werdum's "come follow me into the guard" approach to this bout was just plain ridiculous. His stand up looked sloppy and haphazard. Overeem does not know how to box imo. He just throws bombs. Cain can box. Junior can box. Hell, even Big Nog and Mir are better boxers than Overeem. And look at his last 5 opponents before Werdum. Hacks, has beens, nobodys and green horns. Not one of them top ten. The fact that they consider him th Dream champ is a joke. I'm hoping Big Foot smothers the s$%t out of him and pounds him to a pulp or the Reem knocks him for real.

this is fighting, not "martial arts match up fun time".

Like Codemaster said above, the threat of a takedown is huge. Watch Overeem against Rogers, he slips his punches and delivers brutal leg kicks. Overeem is not a combination striker, which is a good thing for MMA, it makes his defense even tighter. In a standup fight of course Reem would destroy Cain and JDS, but in MMA, Cain and JDS are capable of KO'ing Reem based on the threat of the takedown (more so Cain obviously)

while much of the criticism should land on werdum the fact is overeem was unable to launch any kind of offense and gassed six minutes into the fight and looked very slow and awkward

It was a strange one. I can't say I saw this one coming, to be honest but I should have...



Although Alistair has some impressive ground skills, Werdum is perhaps leagues above Overeem (and the entire HW division) on the ground. Overeem decided to play it smart and not suffer the same fate Fedor did. Fabricio tried that strategy again and almost caught Alistair.



Overeem gassing contributed to two things -- the TDD and the power shots. Alistair tried too hard to go for the KO, and frustrated himself.



By the way Overeem haters, Alistair does not possess mediocre striking. Don't pull that card or I'll pull out the Anderson Silva card for two occasions. Overeem clearly let Werdum land strikes considering Fabricio was using them as a set up piece for the takedown. Overeem sniffed it out perfectly. Yet, it was somewhat a huge risk if Werdum had increased his KO power.



I don't know what to say about Werdum's performance. So I'll just say this... really shitty game plan dude. You had six moths to prepare for this fight and all you could muster was a flopping strategy? Lightning doesn't strike twice in the same location.



Overeem-Silva will provide a much more interesting match up considering Alistair will improve his cardio (don't how much he can improve with all that muscle mass) and Silva is a more well rounded opponent that likes to bang. I still think Overeem will take it.

Reem's belt wasn't on the line last night, and it won't be for the rest of the Grand Prix.

I'm not sure what the cars were but j def thought that should of went to round 4 IMO .

Good title. These things, do in fact, happen in MMA.



I agree with those who thought Overeem got out struck, but by repeatedly pulling guard and giving up a dominant position is what lost Fabricio the match.



I think this is another example of when a Ref should be able to take a point, especially when a fighter stays on the mat and keeps trying to catch a breather after being told to stand up.

The ONLY think that concerns me is Reem gassed out in 3 rounds. Brought back memories of the old Reem.



Overeem,



Work on your stamina and you'll be unstoppable.