Michael Bisping: I just beat Chael Sonnen for two rounds, I will be the champ one day

Holding your opponent against the cage is not "beating"

Thats all Bisping did. And no im not a Sonnel fan. Actually i hate him. But if this fight was not a draw than Sonnel won it.

holding your opponent on the floor is not "beating" them either, i personally thought it was a draw both of them winning a round each and drawing one

indeed! it was a draw in my eyes

Bisping didn't take rd 1 - not with 2 solid take downs from Chael in the first 3 minutes of the entire round. Cage hugging is no more "beating" your opponent than is holding them on the mat. In fact, it is less.

It's actually decisions like this that make people dislike the emphasis placed on takedowns. Both the takedown and pressing someone into the cage are in essence the exact same thing: using wrestling to push your opponent into a position where they are less able to defend themselves. So why is it that Chael landing two takedowns and doing very little damage in the half minute of top control he had is superior to Bisping controlling Chael against the cage and landing a couple of good knees when the opportunity presented itself? Why is it that Chael's "punches" from that position (literally just him bending at the elbow repeatedly, since his arms were immobilized by a high body lock) were enough to win the first two rounds in two of the judges eyes, but it is almost impossible to win a fight from your back without a submission?



So much of scoring with wrestling control seems so arbitrary between judges. I'd like to see some sort of interview sessions with MMA judges to have them weigh in and explain what they look for.

@Ivy



How many years cage fighting experience do you have Ivy?



Those guys were working for position on the fence. You don't have a clue and neither do the 27 WWE fans who voted the same way.



Get in the cage before commenting.

Whatever idiots voted this comment as week have just got on the MMA bandwagon.



The comment weak is an insight into who they are, unable to fight, only able to comment - pathetic.

Take downs and fence pressing are two very different things. Take downs are total body control changing levels and imposing a top position which is generally harder to escape. Fence pressing is using angular momentum in a vertical position and does not involve the entire weight of the pressing fighters body. It is also harder to land effective shots as would be seen in a full guard/top mount. I'd argue take downs set up far better dominance in any fight than fence pressing.

But both are still using wrestling to control your opponent in a way that they can't effectively fight back. In fact, since the position established by a takedown requires less effort to maintain, is harder to escape, and is easier for the disadvantaged fighter to fight back from with submissions, it could be argued that successfully controlling someone against the cage is more impressive. I certainly think that it's more impressive than getting takedowns that aren't capitalized on.



Striking from those positions is not one sided either. I've only seen one person ever get finished from a punch in guard, and I've seen many fighters get dropped from an effective knee against the cage. I think that regardless of what position it is, one of the key factors should be what the fighter does with it.

Personally I score takedowns and getting back up exactly the same, so its only how long you had took control and how much damage you did that gives you points. In the first two rounds Bisping got back up pretty much instantly and took pretty much no damage in the process. However Sonnen got dominated on the feet and controlled for the rest of the rounds.

The TD is riskier though as many fighters have been submnitted whilst in top position, rarely when pressing someone against the cage so who really has more control?

@Ivy



Why would you argue that Ivy, is it your experience talking?? You're a fan not a fighter... I'm sure you're good at making fairy cakes, I've never tried, would I have the knowledge to comment on how you apply chocolate icing?



Don't think so.

Guess you had your eyes closed for Rd1 & 2.

nop how about yours?

No i actually saw the punches landing on sonnen dome of a head the entire fight. guess you missed that?

guess you were looking for bisping's strikes to land because Sonnen outlanded bisping in the 1st round, and landed two takedowns.



bisping had Sonnen against the cage for all of 1 min and 30 seconds





thats not enough to win the round

i agree Bisping all he did was lay on him against the cage, Chael actually took his down and got into dominate positions which is worth a lot more than what Bisping did (even though Chael didnt do anything crazing),



was still a boring ass fight though....

Fightmetric scored it for Chael - significantly. http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/01/sonnen-vs-bisping-official-ufc.html

why dont you marry fightmetric if it's so awesome?

I clicked funny on Jiggoplata's question - lol

Yeah, after all, who needs to know that the judges actually got it right all along? Sweep that shit under the rug.

So, by that logic casual observations from non-professional (Monday morning quarterbacks) are greater than the factual calculations by certified experts of MMA. Makes sense to me.

@ Gaul. I'm not a Bisping fan. I actually hate him. But...he did pretty well. He could well go on the be champ one day as much as it pains me to say that.



BTW did you say "the fight was not a draw..." and then below say "Indeed it was a draw in my eyes" ?? Are you a politician?

In the words of Gaul, "nop are you"

i agree , he won this fight. 2-1

In what parallel universe does Chael get beaten like a rented mule for 2 rounds and still win the fight??? I say Sonnen should give the fake belt to Bisping and allow him to fight Anderson. Chael just proved he is a one dimensional fighter...just a wrestler that can take a good shot.

In this parallel universe. Instead of making sh*t up take a look at who really out stuck who:

http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/01/sonnen-vs-bisping-official-ufc.html

Funny how this fact keeps getting lost on so many people.

He won Rd1 & Rd2. Without a doubt. How anyone can argue that those takedowns Chael got, makes up for the significant strikes landed, combinations, and the 2 MINUTES that Bisping had him up against the cage in the 2nd is beyond me.

Bisping won that fight simple as. When the judges can't even give the decision to the fighter who ticks all the categories for a 10-9 round is disgraceful.

We can't continue to grow our sport with morons who know nothing deciding who won the fight.

there werent any significant strikes landed, how can anyone say there were

While I could actually see the case for Chael winning, if only because the first round was so close many had it scored as a draw, the biggest problem I have is the fact that two judges scored the fight 30-27 in Chael's favor. How exactly do they justify saying Sonnen won the second round?

I have Sonnen winning the second round. He was outlanded, but scored the only takedown of the round. It was close, but I scored the fight 30-27 for Sonnen. With one extremely close round, and one close round.

Most exciting pillow fight ever!

I picked Sonnen to win, but if I was a judge, I would have given it to Bisping.



But if you think this decision is that bad, or the fight was one-sided, you sound like a newb. Rounds 2 and 3 were split between them, and the first depends on how you score it.



Aggression was about equal. Sonnen had the take downs, Bisping had fence control, slight advantage Chael. But then the Count had more of an advantage when it came to striking.



But if you score takedowns on the same level as a knockdown, which some judges do, then you can see why they'd give round one to Chael.



Which ever judged scored it 30-27 should lose their license.



As long as they keep using the antiquated 10 point system, close decisions will be like flipping a coin in the air.

The problem is Bisping never had an advantage (in the second or third) that everybody keeps alluding to. He was out-landed in each round.

And I scored it 30-27 because Sonnen had the only takedown of the second, and wasn't even technically outstruck by Bisping. The Count hit him with four more power shots.

after watching the fight 4 times and keeping an open view on the fight, sonnen won the first lost the second and won the 3rd so to me he won 2-1, saying that sonnen was very sloppy on setting up the takedowns and sonnen used up so much pointless cardio in the first round, if sonnen was more relaxed at stages in the fight and used his cardio burst more evenly he could be a monster with a more relaxed fight plan

Bisping won the fight.

Not only did Bisping win, he did so very clearly. Those smart enough to see this and impartial enough to admit it shouldn't be bothered by the Chael fans running around arguing otherwise. Chael knows who won, Dana White knows who won, Bisping knows who won and impartial viewers know who won. The only ones who don't know are the unqualified judges who sadly determined the outcome of this fight.

Well said.

Dana "knew" Diego Sanchez beat Martin Kampman too. He also "knew" Bj Penn beat Jon Fitch.

http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/3764

But he got punched more and taken down more... How did he win ? LOL

These people don't care about facts and truths, hondata. They just like talking bullshit until the other side falls asleep.

Because Chael was guilty of the same thing that many people accuse wrestlers of: punching with pillow hands just to score points. Chael landed a lot more strikes (if you can call those sissy slaps he was throwing from the clinch that with a straight face), but so many of them were just him flailing his arms to make contact that they weren't truly effective striking. Fightmetric scored such attacks as "jabs" but I honestly don't even think they qualify for that.



The reason why takedowns count for scoring is because they are one fighter imposing their will on the other in order to control where the fight takes place. That is exactly what Bisping did most of the fight. Saying that Chael had better control because he got a couple takedowns he couldn't hold while Bisping pressed him up the cage and beat on him for minutes at a time shows either ignorance on the judge's parts or a flaw in the scoring system. Take your pick.

@Hondata79



I'll help you out with a very simple analogy, which you should understand,



If I describe a painting to you, you have an outline impression of the painting.



When you see the painting, the impression is different.



A fight metric is different from a fight.



A jab which touches the chin as the fighter moves backwards,



Is different to the same jab which hits the chin as the fighter moves forwards.



Same jab, different context.



Doesn't that make sense now?

"Chael landed a lot more strikes (if you can call those sissy slaps he was throwing from the clinch that with a straight face), but so many of them were just him flailing his arms to make contact that they weren't truly effective striking"



What do you think Michael Bisping did against the cage mutiple times?

Try an experiment for me, first imitate Chael Sonnen by bending your elbow repeatedly to hit someone with no force whatsoever and see how hurt they look. Then try imitating Bisping by pressing someone up against a wall and either kneeing them in the stomach or landing an elbow to the face when the opening arrives. See which individual looks more hurt.

The problem with that assesment is not all the shots sonnen hit Bisping with were pitty pat punches. Nor Bispings close to all good knees and elbows.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/haters gonna hate/seansheehan/haters-gonna-hate.jpg?o=26

I wouldn't have been surprised if it was a draw. I glad Sonnen won. I hope he can elevate his cardio. His age is starting to show on his aggressive style

There are rumors now going around that he was sick moving into the fight this week.



However, those are just rumors. I think it was more Bisping making him work really hard.

@Evan



Evan, I heard a rumour that before the fight, Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker and Rick Flair cornered Bisping and made him smell Randy Savages rotting underpants.



Apparently, at this point, the wrestlers were attacked by a wild horde of Umpa Lumpas who recently escaped from Willy Wonkas chocolate factory, but maybe it wasn't true and Bisping making him work really hard.

Funny stuff.

This was a very close call, Sonnen may have just done enough to get the win in my book. Bisping had the second round, Sonnen had the third. The first round was close both fighters landed a few hits Bisping maybe a little cleaner. Sonnen got a few takedowns and pushed the pace a bit so a valid argument could be made for either. Overall it was a solid fight and Bispings performance was more consistent with his last few performances, nothing to be ashamed of.

I agree completely. The first round is where the fight was barely won by Chael Sonnen. Chael started strong at the beginning of the round but was losing steam towards the end. I watched the fight a couple of more times and Bisping just didn't do enough to take the first.



Like most people see it, I agree that the second round goes to Bisping while the third goes to Sonnen. Overall, Sonnen wins a tight fight 29 - 28.



In a way, Bisping was a winner too in another way. I have gained a lot more respect for Bisping and I'm seeing that a lot of other people have as well. Bisping has definitely improved all areas of his game from his early fights in the UFC. I think people will now start seeing him as a legit top 5 threat in the middleweight division.

I agree with this. I wasn't sure who did enough to win round 1 when I watched it, which is usually a good sign it can go either way. But I think that Bisping proved what he needed to here. He's no pushover and he's not a one-dimensional striker. He just lost by a narrow margin to the man ranked number two in the world at middleweight when he was a huge underdog on the betting line. On top of that, he was outwrestling probably the best wrestler in the division for most of the fight. I'm sure whether people hate him or not, we'll never see betting odds against Bisping like that again unless he's fighting Silva.

" But I think that Bisping proved what he needed to here. He's no pushover and he's not a one-dimensional striker."



This.



And I hope this gets played more online instead of people talking about how "bad" Chael looked.

The odds were like that because they knew that barring a finish by Bisping, he would never in a million years win a decision with Sonnen - Silva II lined up.

I'm not a fan of bisping but he won win. 20-27??? really?! who in their right mind could score this 30-27 for chael??? thats BS.

sorry...i was gonna write 30-27 not 20-27.

I did.

Of course you did Evan,



You're acting consistently with your image, the image that you know virtually nothing about fighting, apart from what you get in your armchair.

Funny, as opposed to you? Did you bring anything relevant to this conversation. Because all i see is a guy joking around because hes not intelligent enough to get his point across.

Bisping....true show of class. He gets hated on a lot....he is a bit rough around the edges (****y, says/does some goofy things), but he is most always a respectful competitor when it comes down to it. No?

I just got edited for saying someone is over confident, conceited, over-sure.....or in vernacular, "****y". Darn you auto-censor!

Fightmetirc disagrees that Bisping won this fight. It has Chael EASILY taking it. Click the link -> http://blog.fightmetric.com/2012/01/sonnen-vs-bisping-official-ufc.html

Actually, it has Chael winning the fight 29-28, with the first round being reasonably close. Fightmetric also doesn't take into account effective aggression or octagon control, both of which Bisping brought to the table against Sonnen, in enough quantity that the first round could be questionable. The only round Sonnen EASILY took was the third, but you don't need Fightmetric to tell you that.

@Ivy,



Have the confidence to judge for yourself.

They also said the second was very close too (closest of the fight).

Yes it was very close with regard to effective takedowns and strikes. At that point, you have to ask which fighter had more aggression and better control? That seals the deal in Bisping's favor for the second round.

Sonnen was coming forward just as much for the round. And the takedown would seal control for Sonnen.

Just my opinion but everyone is pointing to poor judging. How is this for a conspiracy theory - Bisping vs Silva or Sonnen vs Silva II - obviously the latter is the one that creates more excitement and revenue. Grease the pockets of the judges and ensure Sonnen's victory. There is no way Sonnen could have a 30-27 by an impartial judge.......just sayin'

P.S The world has already ended and this is all a dream.

Clearly a conspiracy to sell a bigger fight between sonnen and silva. This is a joke, and UFC loses all integrity and credibility when this sort of bullshit happens to generate income. Bisping is the true number 1 contender. I suppose now he will have to beat Munoz to face the winner between sonnen and silva.

Conspiracy to sell a bigger fight? There is no need for that. The stadium will sell out easily and PPV will set a record. Even the queen and the pope have already ordered.

30-27? get the **** out.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, I think the judges just need to be asked if the little elbow bend rabbit punches Chael was throwing when he couldn't move his arms are worth more than punches from the bottom on the ground. If judges say yes, they need to be retrained in the definition of "effective" with regards to striking and aggression.

Bisping LOST a close Decision FIGHTMETRIC STATS POSTED BELOW



http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/3764



Silva VS Sonnen 2

I cant wait, i live in Oregon and there last fight was a edge of the seat unbelievable fight ! Chael deserves another crack at the belt and he proved it tonight.



Silva as a fighter should be vocal about WANTING to fight Chael,

but he is not. That makes me question his character.

See Diaz call out GSP ? See how GSP WANTS to fight Diaz really bad ASAP ! Thats what the champ should do !



Silva is ducking Chael its easy to see. The #1 bad ass on the planet does not sit around for over a year letting the #2 guy talk this much shit ! Sonnen fought is way back to the title NOW Silva has to retire or fight him... He has NO OTHER CHOICE. See what Chael did there ? Trust me he is a smart guy, selling fights being a character... You all know the "im a Gangster from Westlinn " LOL that is one of the RICHEST parts of Oregon, Chael was fed with a Goldenspoon.

He is smart and hes making alot of money of this CHARACTER.

1 judge scored 30-27,are you freaking kidding me??? morons as usual!!!

Two of them scored it that way actually. Apparently Cecil Peoples has found a way to clone himself.

Two scored it 29-28.

Although Cheal had top position in the third he was`nt doing much damage, it was almost lay and prayish. Bisping was completely dominating the stand up. Even Cheal said Bisping won the fight.

The judge who scored it 27-30 should be ashamed of himself.

O.k Cheal got the takedowns in the first but Bisping popped right back up after a couple of secs, even at the end of round three Bisping got the takedown on Cheal and started to land elbows, if the fight would have gone five rounds Bisping woulda won. Did anybody else see the suspect chatting in the third round, it almost went on for twenty seconds??????

"Although Cheal had top position in the third he was`nt doing much damage, it was almost lay and prayish. Bisping was completely dominating the stand up. Even Cheal said Bisping won the fight.

The judge who scored it 27-30 should be ashamed of himself."



All of this is incorrect.

even tho its a loss on bispings record, that fight was good for his career, regardless, and was good experience for him and i think hes still improving so, the outcome didnt bother me much, plus now we get to see silva/ sonnen 2.

Bisping clearly one round 2 and Sonnen won round 3 I don't think anybody disagrees with that right? I think some of you have to watch round 1 again. Sonnen took him down twice in the first 2 minutes the last 3 minutes may have been a draw but I can't see any possible way anybody could give that round to Bisping. And I'm not sure if the judges could hear big John or not but if they could, hearing him warn Bisping at least 6 times for grabbing the shorts and cage doesn't exactly help his case either.

WTF you talking about!!!! Bisping was winning the striking in round one, go and re watch the fight.

Fight metric is just a google page away.

I never thought i would be saying this but Bisping is starting to become a class act. He has taken this decision like a pro.

They had a boring fight that could have gone either way. I was not impressed by either man's performance. They both landed some good shots, but in the end; neither should fight for the title after a fight like that.

Same for Evans, even though it's not their fault that the styles of fighting didn't make for good entertainment. But a deal is a deal, so now both men will move on and fight for the title in their respective weight classes. I hope the title fights offer more in the department of entertainment.

I think that the fact you feel that way is a point in Bisping's favor. He neutralized much of his opponent's game and in the end, they were pretty evenly matched. Being evenly matched with the #1 contender when many people thought you were utter garbage as a fighter before the fight is a pretty good place to be.

I agree. Bisbing impressed me last night with his overall game. He made it difficult for Chael to take him down, he never stayed down for long in the first two rounds, and he stayed busy. I am not a Bisbing fan, but he looked good last night.

Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the ring/fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense.



Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear in (c) above, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.-



Effective striking is judged by determining the total number of legal strikes landed by a contestant.- Bisping had the better striking.



Effective grappling is judged by considering the amount of successful executions of a legal takedown and reversals. Examples of factors to consider are take downs from standing position to mount position, passing the guard to mount position, and bottom position fighters using an active threatening guard.- Sonnen had this He was able to get Bispings back and has taken Bisping down more than Bisping took Sonnen down. Also he was able to pass Bisping Guard.



Fighting area control is judged by determining who is dictating the pace, location and position of the bout. Examples of factors to consider are countering a grappler's attempt at takedown by remaining standing and legally striking, taking down an opponent to force a ground fight, creating threatening submission attempts, passing the guard to achieve mount, and creating striking opportunities.- This could have gone either way Bisping Pressed Sonnen against the wall. Sonnen was not 100% successful in taking Bisping down but he was able to take him down. I think Bisping was not threatening in the guard but was more content to getting up than trying to submit Sonnen.



Effective aggressiveness means moving forward and landing a legal strike. - This is another 50/50 contest although Sonnen moved forward he was not landing a lot of strikes. In the other hand Bisping had the better of the striking.



Effective defense means avoiding being struck, taken down or reversed while countering with offensive attacks. -Sonnen has this one he was able to take Bisping down more often than Bisping took Sonnen down although Bisping was able to get up or reverse Sonnen against the Fence the virtue of successful take downs the edge will go to Sonnen.





Judges shall use a sliding scale and recognize the length of time the fighters are either standing or on the ground, as follows:

if the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round on the canvas, then:

Effective grappling is weighed first; and

Effective striking is then weighed

If the mixed martial artists spent a majority of a round standing, then:

Effective striking is weighed first; and

Effective grappling is then weighed

A round is to be scored as a 10-8 round when a contestant overwhelmingly dominates by striking or grappling in a round.

If a round ends with a relatively even amount of standing and canvas fighting, striking and grappling are weighed equally.





The main major factor was as you can see from the "UNIFIED RULES AND OTHER MMA REGULATIONS" control is value more than striking. Although Bisping edge out Sonnen in the striking department (dirty Boxing style) The Takedowns of Sonnen was more evident. Being pressed up against the fence and getting punch is not as visually evident than being taken down.

Getting a takedown and getting back to your feet should be scored exactly the same, only how long you control someone and damage should give the winning points. Looking at the fight that way its pretty obvious that Bisping won the first two.

He should fight Mark Munoz next. And the winner gets the next shot. Cause that was a close fight.

bisping u didnt win mate i give rounds 1 n 3 to chael n round 2 ta bisping ud 29/28 sonnen imo.. bisping did very well i think he gained alot of fans from this like him to face brian stann that would be good to see..

At first i thought Bisping had it and got robbed, then after watching it again i realise different.

Main reason alot of people thought Bisping had it, was because they expected him to get destroyed and were amazed by it being so close and second head strikes are more noticeable and remembered than body or leg strikes which bisping landed slightly more and hurt sonnen badly with one, but sonnen landed alot more body and leg strikes! that with the takedowns and dominant top position i have to give sonnen rnds 1 & 3!