LowKick.com Rankings: Six fighters you should consider moving Up or Down in your list

why is bj still in the LW rankings?? his next fight is at WW...i took him out of my LWs completely based on that fact

I believe Cain is the number 1 HW in the world just because Fedor lost, Brock obviously lost and Overeem hasn't fought anyone in the top 10 yet and even think Cain should b considered in the P4P ratings, I can't think of alot of fighters who can beat him...Penn imo is still a solid P4P fighter and a top 3 Lw but i'm biased he is one of my fav fighters, Alvarez should b considered more, I would even put him as a top 3 LW and Hardy, he's always been overrated never hard him in my top 10, Carlos should tho

lol mate! crackhead you thought brock was going to hammer cain! u need more education chump

I think part of the problem of having the users select the rankings is alot of people select their rankings at the beginning of the month and then forget to update them. If everyone were only allowed submit their rankings say in the last 5 days before the end of each month the rankings would be alot more accurate. Only a suggestion.

I cant believe their are 4 HWs in the 10 P4P rankings. Maybe if Aoki stuffs himself with sushi, he could balloon in weight to over 206lbs and get some votes.

lol nope

There are only 3 at this time.

don't be so naive, fedor have 32 wins around his fat belly



btw this rankings are accurate like a maxim mg firing on a division



The right question is who is the most proven fighter out there?

i guess you know the answer

How am I being naive by saying Fedor isn't number one? The way I see it is if you lose you can't be considered number one, Fedor lost if he hadn't I would have him as number 1 p4p and HW...its like saying Cavaliers were the best bball team last year because they had the best record in the season even tho the Lakers won the championship, it doesn't matter how many wins the guy has, if he loses he can't be number one

In many sports the long established #1 guy or team dont lose that rank upon the first loss. For example, Chelsea can lose their next game maybe even 2 games but will still be the best team in the premiership, Tiger Woods can come last in a tourny but still be #1. Cain in the meantime has proven himself as a good MMA fighter, but he needs to beat a few more big names before I personally will rate him as #1 and dependant on fedors next performance will effect how I rate him.

if fedor was too fight cain i think fedor is more sound standing up and on the ground! fedor 31 and 1 with in ten yrs lets see sum 1 beat that record~ i still think cain is 1 of the best as of now! when dos santos fights cain it will be a better fight than brock! dos santos is really good with his hands and pretty good on the ground! fedor is still 1.

oh dont start the if fedar would fight him riff. fedar will never fight in the ufc so no chance. I will tell u like the others. How can someone be the best NFL player(UFC) if they play in college(SF, M1, M2, ect)?

its called being born with it! theres a few in every town across the world!

/facepalm

I can understand the Tiger Woods example, but the Chelsea one doesn't work because if they lose the FA Premier League championship they wont be considered number 1 instead the team who won would b....as for MMA I really think its as simple as if you win you stay at the top and if you lose you go down thats it, I still think Fedor is the best MMA fighter ever but now he is slowing down and its not his fault it happens to everyone like Nog, Cro Cop, Wand, Saku, they all had there time but now new fighters are coming to take that number one spot

Dont worry Ninja i agree with you bro they are just to stupid to realize that Fedor being the Great fighter he was is no longer the best in the world now P4P he is prolly gonna be top 3 for while.... The only reason they are sayin Fedor is the #1 HW is because they are fans of him, And I understand that, but yall have to go with your guts, instead of your likes, hes not the best hasnt fought anyone good in a while half the people he has fought end up doing bad or are already doing bad its the way things go yall need to realize im not hating on him at all he could still whoop my ass its just fedor has soooo many holes in his boxing game, and Cain would pick that apart now on the ground idk thats both their main games so maybe Fedor could submit him but you never know, Cain is #1 imo.

the UFC HW's are way overrated, this is a delusional by product of excess hype compounded by Lesnar fanboys and similar which make them out to be something they are not. Cain is an excellent HW, he has now added some legitimacy to the belt at last, but he still has to defend it a few times before you can call him the best in the world. Beating Brock don't mean half as much as some think, as brock was soooooooo overrated to begin with and everyone knows that now. fedor lost but wasnt rag dolled, he may no longer be #'1 but i thinkg it's best to wait until he next fights to form that opinion.. The HW picture is unclear right now so I opt to go with who was consistently the best year on year on year rather than someone who has a fraction of fights against top fighters.

why is brock in the top 10 p4p?

The strikeforce HWs are way more overrated then the UFC they dont fight any good comp and plus half of them have WAYYYYYYYY more fights then Brock Overroid hasnt fought any top comp since he left LHW and he got beat by the top comp there!

Lesnar was never on my p4p list in the first place, and based on saturday night i think that further cements my argument!!



Velasquez did a great job and I am a fan of his but dont get carried away too soon, your not a champion til you defend the belt and I canot wait 2 see Cain vs JDS etc etc he deserves to be on p4p list i have him currently 7th which is fair IMO



although overeem fighting in K1 shouldnt boost his ranking for mma he should still be top 5 p4p hes fought and beaten a who's who of mma fighters, at multiple weight classes therefore qualifying him as p4p worthy.



BJ Penn im not his biggest fan but he still should be on the p4p ranking, again another fighter who's fought a who's who of mma fighters at multiple weight classes, regarding his losses to frankie edgar, its not always the best fighter that wins..... but the smartest fighter, and edgar's gameplan was perfect, outmaneuvre and out work BJ using his speed, edgar mixed it up well in that fight but i dunno if he's p4p worthy we'll see in his next fight.



wasnt impressed by alvarez, at all, he pushed the pace but an 'injured' Huerta still managed to drop him, he's still overrated IMO



Condit should be top 8 Welterweight, whereas i think Hardy has slipped out of the top 10, im eager to see how he copes next time round after 2 back to back losses



the other fighters mentioned should be tweaked accordingly in their respective weight classes! :)

how do u guys define your P4P lists?? seriously, im curious on the different opinions everyone seems to have??

Personally I see P4P as how effect the fighter would be if they could take their equivalent mass and skill set to another weight division. Would they still be a good fighter.

How can you say Alvarez is overrated, he stopped Roger whom both Florian and Maynard couldn't, he destroyed Hansen and Kawajiri both considered top 10 when he fought them, he hasn't lost in years and has only lost once in the LW division, maybe once he beats Melendez and Aoki people will give him more credit

@ Crippla



As always, I agree with almost everything.



I certainly agree with your Overeem comments. I wish he was in the UFC; hen and Velasquez would be a great fight. I personally think his first defense should be against Mir. I'll pick Mir; he might lose, he might win. And where FM might not be that great at bringing it, he's very good at responding to it, unless overpowered and I don't think CV has the power to overwhelm Mir. I think the fight would be a toss-up.



Others - I love Condit. I think he's the real number 2 @ 170 and Diego looked great...Hardy, how they fall. And agreed, be interesting to see how he comes back after 2 defeats. My guess, is he'll be a tad more humble and looking to start executing full game plans, not just, go out and hope to knock a guy out.



...can't believe you aren't impressed with Alvarez. :-(

@ Wing Chun aka Wing Tzun :)



haven't heard from ya in a while



Yes i would love to see Alistar in the UFC, match him up with any UFC HW and it should make for a great fight. I'm pretty sure Cain's first defense will be against JDS though...... but Mir vs Cain would be very interesting, Mir's BJJ is arguably the best in UFC HW along with Nog, and plus Frank has been letting his hands go recently too (and knees) it is a potential matchup, but I think Frank needs to knock off a solid opponent before gettin another shot, with Cain as the new Champ the HW division is gonna be shook up in 2011 with some great title and contender fights.

Yea was really impressed by Condit, i think he too needs to beat another solid opponent and he should be in title contention, I'd love to see him matchup against Diego Sanchez or Thiago Alves, either of those fights would be awesome IMO

Alvarez- IMO he's overrated yes he's shown some skills..... but Huerta looked off form and injured and still managed to drop him I actually laughed when I seen it, cause I knew Roger wasnt at it that night, i would like to see the rumoured fight between Alvarez and Melendez happen, but til then my opinion will not change til i see him face some top LW's

@ Crippla



Yes - haven't been on here in a week or so. I'm touched if my absence has been noticed. (ha ha)



Overeem - yes, I think if he was in the UFC right now, he'd be a great choice and probably number 1. I'm a big fan of AO. He seems to be the complete package.



Mir & his stand-up - has greatly improved and I don't see how anyone could say Mir doesn't have power. I think he has a ton of power.



As it stands right now, I think the division is very dynamic and in flux. We could easily see the title change hands a number of times, until someone nails it down.



Cheers Crippla - hope all is well.



Wing Chun

I was discussing the same thing previously. I feel Mir is an interesting match-up for Cain. I would pick Mir as well.

@ JS



I think he's the obvious choice and he would stand a very good chance of winning.



The other outcome of this - I think it puts a nail in the coffin of Mir moving down in weight. I think that debate will be over, now. With Lesnar and Carwin proving beatable, then there's no reason for him to make the shift in weight; Mir matches up very well against everyone else in the division.



...nice to know you'd pick him in the fight.

@Crippla



I'm curious too. I think pound for pound lists directly has to do with POUNDS. If a smaller guy can beat a lot of bigger guys, that will have a big effect on my rankings. That's why Fedor is always on mine. Anderson because he has moved up weight classes to fight. Cain will have to move up on my list. Some are just opinions on how they would do at higher weights like GSP or Aldo. Some people's lists really confuse the heck out of me.

@ japanegro



yes i agree with a lot of what your saying!

My P4P list is defined through overall skill set a fighter has, and how I think they would do competing in other weight classes, alot of the fighters on my list have competed in different weight classes, Mousasi, BJ Penn, Overeem, Belfort etc and also how they have performed in the different weight classes also affects my ranking, as then it wouldnt be opinion but Fact, others are fighters that compete in one weight class but have a great skill set overall, and try to imagine them fighting at different weights and how their performances would translate at a higher or lower weight; based on their performances in their normal weight class



nice to know someone is on the same wave length :)

I have a similar approach to p4p lists, I consider if 1lb of fighter A would beat 1lb of fighter B. Given that featherweights will have alot more speed and appear more skillful HW's with all round games get rated a fraction higher than FW's with similar skill sets. Extra credit is given for beating guys who are bigger than yourself.

Guys like Silva who goes up in weight but actually looks bigger than his opponents I don't credit so much as he cuts alot and enjoys massive size advantage in his usual division.

@ Ninja



he is overrated IMO Bellator have blew him up

plus its not as if he brutally KO'd or dominated Huerta, roger even managed to drop him, with ONE leg lol, he got destroyed by Aoki, his last loss was 2 years ago and since then his most credible opponent has been Huerta and Kikuno, the rest are people ive never even heard of, yea if he beats either Gil or Aoki i'll maybe start to believe the hype:)

Well most of Overeems opponents havent even been top 20 but hes still considered top 5 top 3 HW's in the world, and as for getting dropped...I dont really see why thats a big deal when he stopped Huerta in the end, Nog gets dropped in almost every fight hes in but still wins in the end n thats all that matters

I cant actually believe your trying to copare Alvarez with

LMAO Ninja - you obviously dont know much bout Overeem,let me enlighten you



most of Overeems opponents havent even been in the top 20, ok maybe not HW but the man has fought every top guy there was in pride



Overeems Credible Opponents



Vitor Belfort X2

Lil Nog X2

Shogun X2

Sergei kharitnov X2

Cro Cop

Chuck Liddell

Fabricio Werdum

Ricardo Arona

etc etc



Eddie Alvarez credible opponents



Hansen

Aoki

kawajiri

kikuno

huerta (injured)

plus Aoki is the best LW hes fought and he got destroyed, the rest i mentioned arent even rated anymore, no where near the top 10 or top 20 for that matter



adding - also the way in which Alistair has demolished his HW counterparts lately speaks more for him than what his opponents names are.



i wish i could say the same for eddie - he's average at best

Too bad he lost to everyone u listed with the exception of Belfort, i'm not saying Overeem sucks or anything hes one of my favorite fighters, all i was saying is that ppl consider him top 5 in the world without even fighting top 20 opponents, while Alvarez has only lost once in the LW division and has beaten Hansen, Kawajiri and Huerta all considered top 10 guys when he fought them and K1 really doesn't matter in a MMA convo and

k1 doesnt really matter in an MMA convo??? really last time i checked kickboxing and muay thai were one of the main components of MMA!



too bad he lost to all them except belfort? your wrong again young un

yes he has beaten vitor twice, he's also guillotined Igor Vorchanghyn to death too, KO'd Sergei Kharitinov - who was one of the best strikers competing in Pride. he never lost to Cro cop either, Alistair hit him in the balls and Mirko couldnt continue and before he demolished Brett Rogers he put Fujita into a coma.



So in my assumption of that Alistair deserves his ranking!!!

Well saying Overeem is the top 5 K1 fighters doesnt mean he is top 5 MMA fighter thats wat i was saying....and ya he beat Sergei but he also did get KO'd by him u forgot to mention that and that was in the HW division and also he's a HW so him beating LHW's doesnt matter that much in a HW convo especially when he hasnt fought in LHW 2007....Fujita was well passed his prime and beating Rogers was pretty good I admit....my main point was that Overeem is conisdered top 5 when he hasnt beaten anyone that good while Alvarez beat Hasen, Kawajiri and now Hureta he deserves more respect

Please for your own sake never mention Overeem in the same sentence as Alvarez, unless your callin eddie OVER - rated alvarez, Overeem is the only MMA fighter that competes in K1 i would love to see Eddie try that and get KTFO,



Alistair KO'd Badr Hari - arguably the best striker on the planet



Nuff said

Striking is a component of MMA, but it is not the same thing. K-1striking is inherently different than MMA striking because in MMA you have to widen your stance to defend against takedowns and change your range against wrestlers.



Alistair is without a doubt a top K-1 guy. But in his current run at HW his opponents that he has defeated have a 104-77 record. His win against Brett Rogers was impressive as hell, but Rogers isn't even a top 15 guy, you can't rank him in the top half of the top 10 over that.



I definitely think Overeem will crack the top 5 soon (as soon as he strings together more than one fight a year and starts fighting some of that top HW talent Strikeforce has collected) but let's not jump the gun. He needs to earn that spot not be gifted it by his fans.

So now it's "Lesnar’s questionable performance against Shane Carwin at UFC 116".....?

Overeem on the p4p list is ridiculous. Why, he's a big guy who dominates less than stellar fighters? Oh, but rogers definitely needs to be hyped up because he fought Fedor and Fedor had more difficulty......No.



Hardy was never that good, but the fact that condit can KO him so easily just leads me to question GSP's decision to keep him down so he couldn't fight.



Brocks chin was invincible last fight, now suddenly he has a glass jaw even though that stumble that led to the end WASN'T EVEN CAUSED BY A HIT! The "omg he suxxx now" of ignorant fans continues. For the record, he had already equalled the success of every other HW champ.



Shields had a bad day, and still won the fight, heart of a champion in my opinion, anyone not ignorant can see who he's beaten and see he's not a fraud. Hint hint, it's more impressive than overeems list by far.

shields will get owned by GSP, only a fool would think otherwise, he didnt even beat kampmann, he landed zero yes ZERO damage. takedown and control means nothing if you dont follow up with submission attempts or gnp. Kampmann on the other hand had numerous submission attempts and landed great knees elbows and punches throughout the fight. I know he has great record but he should have lost his last fight if it wasn't so fixed.

lesnar fans, come on, stop licking on his balls

cains taste better?

not that im all about cain, but i just think that all the lesnar fans arre wwe fans, wich sucks

Spicier anyway. Supposedly he is Mexican.

Please tell me who else can best bj like Edgar did? The guy is still a monster with a granite chin

BJ's weakness is points fighters. Doesn't diminish his ability or skillset

No one can beat BJ in that division except Frankie. I still don't think we saw the best BJ in those two fights.

I agree 100%, no lightweight alive could do what Frankie did to BJ. Does that mean no other lightweight can beat Frankie? Gray Maynard will be a good measuring stick for that.

Yea, but we have never seen how BJ would do against Maynard. So that throws off the equation. I think Lay-nerd, I mean Maynard could probably lay on top of any lightweight in the division.

Yeah that's true he may be able to lay on any lightweight. Although maybe BJ can keep him off his nuts long enough to hurt him and get the TKO

lol I don't, it would be hard to say. Laying on BJ for 5 rounds isn't such a good idea imo, only GSP could pull that off.

I liked that Laynerd.lol.

velasquez - #1 hw

brock - #2. but i'd love to see carwin get and destroy him in a rematch. TAKE THIS MAN OUT OF YOUR P4P RANKINGS. WTF ARE YOU THINKING?!?!

shields - overrated. good ground game, but needs to learn to secure a mount...possibly should bump back up to mw cause his conditioning looked awful saturday night.

bj penn - still great, but drop him down til you're proven otherwise.

overeem - i'm not sold on him. while i think shogun is infinitely better, this man was destroyed by him and i don't see him doing that well against top comp.

i think kampman looked pretty good even though he lost and he didn't throw many strikes which i think if he had he would have one the fight by tko, but i was expecting it to be more of a one sided fight in favor of shields.

yeah, i agree.



i don't fault kampman for trying to play defense and avoid any takedowns, but that really hurt him not throwing out much offense



i scored a uni decish for shields but was not impressed by his per-for-mance

Why isn't Bisping on these lists................

I wouldnt put him p4p, but he has been introduced to my middleweight list now : )

We need more fighters in the lists. Especially P4P ranking. Thirty fighters to cover the all the weight classes is just stupid. Were ignoring so many people. IMO there should be at least the top ten people from every weight class in the P4P ranking list.

mma lurker



maybe not top 10 from every weight class, but yeah i agree there are defintley more fighters needed on the p4p list, so many are overlooked

There is a scheduled time in which those fighters are reviewed and new ones are added/removed periodically. However, they are rational selections as we cannot list every single fighter in MMA. The list is based on accomplishment, not popularity. LowKick already offers a favorite fighter list available on your profile.



However, in the interest of improvement, maybe you could list the fighters that you feel are missing that should be on the pound for pound list. Thanks : )

for P4P it only makes sense to me that at least the top 5-10 fighters from each weight division be available. Currently P4P only has thirty fighters in it. When some divisions are more stacked then others and different combinations of match ups can become complicated. Personally I think the welterweight middle weight and light heavy weight divisions have the most talent in them currently. and that fighters like the following deserve to be on the list;



Nick and Nate Diaz, Carlos Condit, Dan Hardy, Josh Koscheck, Matt Hughes, Diego Sanchez, Nate Marquardt, Wanderlei Silva, Michael Bisping, Yoshihiro Akiyama, Chris Leben, Houston Alexander, Randy Couture, Ryan Bader, and probably more



Especially over a few people on the current list who list of current accomplishments I dont find that impressive. I know im no expert but I havnt barely heard of a few of the guys on the current list led alone seen enough of them to say they could beat one guy or another. and for that reason i only like the top 6 of my P4P list (maybe your should let people submit lists with less then 10 people).



But more so thats just my opinion. Thats why the more options we have the better the sites P4P ranks will be. That way many opinions can be reflected.

Understandable. I am not well informed on the programming side of things, but I am sure there is good reason for the 30 fighter limit. You make a good point, but... and I am not trying to be a smart ***, but say Diego Sanchez, Dan Hardy, Nate Diaz, just to pick a few.... Do you honestly feel that those guys belong on a pound for pound list? Now, the individual weight classes DO offer the top guys in each division, give or take a few. Which is why we try to update as we go. However, pound 4 pound? With the talent there is to choose from within the 30 guys available, you feel as tho those guys really belong on the list? They're talented guys, but again these lists are based on over all achievement and proven talents. If you feel that they do, then of course that is your opinion, which is the entire point of the list.

@ Joey



Ive got a few suggestions



Randy Couture

Frank Mir

Hector Lombard

Shane Carwin

Yushin Okami

Michihiro Omigawa

Nick Diaz



Just a few, will add more when I think of them lol

Hey, go ahead and Pm me suggestions if you ever feel like someone has a case for being an option. Obviously, I cannot promise every single one will be added, but these lists are for you guys : )

No those guys probably wouldnt make my list right now but I would probably put nate and diego ahead of Rashad Evans ( #10 on your current list).



and lets say I got one place left on my list and you got one place on your list and fighters 1-9 are pretty much the best out there. but your last choice is between 3 fighters all fighting for different promotions. I might think fighter X is the best of the bunch and you might think fighter Z is the best.



I think it really comes down to the ambiguity of P4P rankings. I mean theres no concrete way to prove P4P. let say diego and brock could fight at eithers weight class. IMO Diego would have the edge but im sure their are many around here who would feel its the other way around.



And even tho I suggested pyle be added because he beat hathaway. Im not really a fan of dropping a fighter because he had a bad fight. Id rather people still have the option of picking between say pyle and hathaway then only one of the fighters being an option.

Interesting... Rashad Evans is a very common name on p4p lists, both professional and fan. However, each person has their own views on what decides those slots I suppose.

I like evans he puts on exciting fights.



I think his strengths are his explosiveness, power, and tenacity. But I think he lacks skill and technique of top fighters. I think Lyoto exposed that (and tito). I think most of rashads success has been timely. hes beat a couple top fighters (jackson, lidell) but they were all past their prime and didnt give top performances. Then he beat fighters like Forrest, Bonnar whom i also like and think are exciting fighters but I dont think they are top level fighters. Then theirs a good win over Bisping. But the rest of his career isnt all that impressive beating most average fighters that he was able to out work.



In a P4P way I dont think he would match up well against explosive fighters with more technical stand up. As well as veteran fighters that still have it (ie, a younger chuck or rampage would have beat him).

People who see Brocks loss as some great triumph for true MMA are fooling themselves. At the end of the day everyone in the UFC is just an athlete and a fighter that does there job by training and fighting. It's the fans and the media that like to hype guys when they are doing well then kick them when they are down. We can't expect everyone to be some objective robot who separates the fighters skill from their persona, but if you know anything about MMA, you know styles make matches and it takes more than one fight to judge a fighter. Brock handled Frank Mir, but because Cain handled Brock, does that mean Cain can handle Frank Mir? I personally don't think so, because I think MMA is much more complex than alot of people make it out to be.

It is a triumph for true MMA in a way. Brock is a huge wrestler learning MMA hyped up to be the best thing since sunshine and was whooped by a properly skillede MMA fighter. If anything MMA had a major triumph in that good skill>size with bit of skill. The Lesnar bubble is well and truly burst after being rag dolled in his last 2 fights. He has something to give to the sport and will win more fights in the future, but if he wants to remain at the level he been fighting at, expect him to get rag dolled sometime again, perhaps on several occasions as the flaws in his game have been fully exposed and the lies the gullible public brought exposed. He is a draw for his size and persona, but he really isn't this unbeatable monster, and any MMA fan worth their salt knew that from the start.

This aint about kicking a guy while he's down. I dont know many fans that hate lesnar, just the idiots who fall for the hype and reinforce a delusional reality with their nuthuggery of the guy, seeing him on sites top p4p lists proves this to be true when he is near the bottom of any proper list. Myself and others said wait until he has had 15 fights or more and you will see the flaws, well it came alot sooner than that. Age is against him ad I don't see him changing the way he reacts to being hit which is a major flaw in MMA.

I agree entirely. I like Lesnar and have not watched wrestling since I was very young. Brock is and has always been the true underdog. The only ones getting caught up in the hype are the guys that are fixated on his downfall. The infatuation seems a bit unnatural imo.



As far as your comment on MMAth, its interesting that you mention it. I actually feel that if Mir were able to get a shot at Cain, he would be our next champion. However, it is unlikely he would get thru Carwin and/or Lesnar. Thats just the way things work.

Joey, the ones caught up in the hype are those who have him top ten p4p material and call him greatest ever HW, greatest MMA fighter. they distort MMA and the HW scene with their gullibility.

Just for the record I never had Brock on my p4p list and I had him 4th on my HW list, but I still think its sad to see everyone turn on him the way they did, and now act as if he has no skill at all and can't compete against the best HW's in the world.

it isn't that Brock can't compete. he has already proven he can, but he has major flaws to his game which have been exposed, and some of us been saying it for ages, but the fanboys wouldn't accept it.

Yeah I was thinking that to. Id give the edge to Mir in Mir vs Cain. But will he ever make it there?...

Mike pyle should probably be in in the welter weight options as he beat hathaway ufc 120

Dunno why some twat has weaked you, Pyle looked dominant against Hathaway.

True, but Hathaway is/was an up and comer, not really a top Welterweight. Most would have seen Pyle ahead of him in terms of over all achievement and well-rounded skillset before hand I would think.

yeah and hathaways been on the welterweight list for a couple months and pyle isnt on it so...

I expected better from Hathaway after his performance against Sanchez, but i probably wasn't giving Pyle enough respect.

For me top3 are Fedor, Cain and Alistair.

I hope that Alistair will win k-1 this year and move up to ufc :)

askren? you best be having a laugh? the guy has no striking quite literally, just a clay guida esq. intensity for the takedown. by no means am i comparing his incredible wrestling to guidas by the way.

Funny to see Anton post this article, today. I signed in here last night, just to change my rankings and every name on the (his) list, I changed.



The fights this weekend really upset the apple cart in a great deal of ways. Although I picked Lesnar, my gut told me CV would win. The shock (to me) was not the loss, but how bad and how quickly. I look at him now and wonder, would he beat Alistair Overeem or even a very aggressive Frank Mir? Keep in mind, if Frank hadn't over committed and stayed on his feet when he hit Brock with that "big" knee, it might have been a different outcome. I'll say this, it is strange to see a man of Lesnar's size getting pushed around and intimidated, in the manner with which he has been in his last two fights.



I know one thing for sure, Frank Mir was a big winner this weekend. If he has a road to the title, one that does not go through either Lesnar or Carwin, he can become champ (again). Frank Mir can beat Cain. It's not a lock or a guarantee, but he stands a way better chance of beating the new champ, then he did the old. And he probably stands a better chance then aynone else in the division. My guess is, that FM watched that fight with a big smile on his face; loving the outcome. Lesnar lost badly to a smaller, more skilled, more "aggressive" guy, who could stuff a take-down or get up - that's all. I personally do not see how Velasquez / Mir cannot happen and maybe even his first defense. Other then or before Mir, who (else) in the (current) HW division should be suggested as a contender and based on what record? If Alistair Overeem or Fedor were in the UFC, then I'd say fine, but (alas) they are not. I think CV's first "D" should be against Mir.



Other then that - I was unimpressed with Shield's stamina and his inability to end Kampmann; he'd get crushed by GSP. In that division I see Condit as the real number 2.



Also - Lawler looked great...Cote and Gonzaga are done (and I'm a fan of both); Eddie Alvarez is a beast; pick him over Penn and Diego Sanchez looked great. I'd rather see GSP v Sanchez before GSP v Shields.



IMO - as always.

I agree with you that MIr is a bad matchup for Cain, based on his striking and his jiu-jitsu, especially because it is conceivable for Cain to get wreckless in Mirs guard if he gets him down, just as Fedor did with Werdum. But I think JDS is just as big as a challenge. His striking is better than mirs, and hit ground game is supposed to be good, but obviously not as good as Mirs. I do think Mir has to avoid Lesnar and Carwin on his way back to a title shot, but if JDS loses to Cain, I see JDS vs Mir as a possible chance for Mir to become the number 1 contender, assuming he has 1 more fight before that against a guy not named Brock or Shane (maybe schaub, or russow, i dunno?)

@ Wing Chun aka Wing Tzun



yes I too picked Brock but in the back of my mind I thought cain could pull it off; and was glad to see him do it tbh, i was more shocked with how quickly he took lesnar out.

Yes I'm sure Mir was in his element watching the fight lol

but i think he still one fight away from a title shot (see above) ;)

based on Jake's performance the other night GSP would destroy him, Sanchez vs GSP could be interesting, regarding Eddie Alvarez - again see above lol

TONS of options in the HW division right now, should be exciting for a long time, unless Cain just dusts everybody.

@ dray12



Please don't take my lack of mentioning JDS as an insult or taking him lightly; I do not. He's a great fighter and would be a great fight for CV. I just think Mir, after a big KO victory over a legend, is in better stead to fight for the title, then JDS who had a not so thrilling decision over Roy Nelson; couldn't finish him after owning him.



And if JDS and Mir fight, then who does CV fight? Or does he wait? And if he waits, how long is it going to be before he defends? I'm a big fan of The Champ defending his title; no matter the division. It was one of my big problems with GSP taking the coaches job on TUF. GSP will go the better part of a year (ten months) without defending his title. That's just too long. The Champ needs to defend his belt a minimum of two times a year (if healthy) and preferably three - IMO. Concordantly, I hope we are not sitting around six or ten months waiting for the outcome, rest and camp of the winner of JDS v. Mir, before that happens.



Cheers for the post,



Wing Chun

Ok I see what your saying and sorry I didn't really make myself clear on a few things. I basically am disagreeing with you and saying that JDS deserves the shot over Mir right now, but if JDS loses against Cain, and Mir wins his next fight against whoever (preferably not shane or brock for the sake of his chances), I could see Mir vs JDS being a potential fight in which Mir could reclaim top contender status. And I agree with you 100% Champs gotta defend the title consistently, although sometimes its hard when the heavyweight roster isn't that deep and there aren't many top matchups to be made.

I think cain will beat jds but a great fight will be cain vs shane carwin

Carwin would get caught by shots and then gas, just like Lesnar did.

A lot of people dropping the hate on Lesnar but I believe Cain's victory is a testament to how good he really is versus Lesnar being bad. I wouldn't put Lesnar on my P4P list but rememeber how new he still is to this sport, and how far he has come in a short time. He will be back for sure. He has the heart and will of a champion, and he has shown it. I wouldn't go writing him off anytime soon.



As for Cain, I would have to put him right up there on P4P. He was able to hurt Lesnar with shots, take him down, and keep him down. I see him doing the same to JDS, except maybe he will take him down first, then beat him up. I'm not really sure if the UFC has a heavyweight that can beat Cain.

No one hates lesnar. People pointed out flaws that his fanboys in their deluded fantasy world refused to accept. It is the idiot fanboys the real MMA fans hate. They are so eager to jump on the nuts of whoever has the belt without engaing their brain and not be spoonfed DW's mantras about how good his HW's are. No one hates Lesnar or any other fighter, they have my respect certainly and any other real MMA fan. But the BS hype making them to out to be something they are not reached epidemic proportions in the case of Lesnar and now that lie is fully exposed.

overeem fedor cain three best heavyweight's fact you morons

Fedor Cain Carwin are the 3 best. Carwin can sort out his cardio, Overeem will always have a dogdy chin.

my top 10 lists 4 da hell of it



1. Cain

2. Overeem

3. JDS

4. Werdum

5. Fedor

6. Brock

7. Carwin

8. TSilva

9. Mir

10. Nog



1. Shogun

2. Machida

3. Evans

4. Jon Jones

5. Rampage

6. Rafael C

7. Bader

8. King Mo

9. Nog

10. Silva



1. Anderson

2. Sonnen

3. Belfort

4. Shields

5. Hendo

6. Nate

7. Maia

8. Okami

9. Jacare

10. Lombard



1. GSP

2. Fitch

3. Alves

4. Koscheck

5. Shields

6. Kampman

7. Condit

8. Hardy

9. Daley

10. Sanchez



1. Edgar

2. Penn

3. Gilbert

4. Maynard

5. Alvarez

6. Florian

7. Aoki

8. Sherk

9. Dunham

10. G-Sot

P4p



1. Anderson

2. GSP

3. Aldo

4. Fedor

5. Edgar

6. Fitch

7. Overeem

8. Shogun

9. Penn

10. Melendez

Not bad, but I would put Shogun higher!

You know... I think I'd like to watch a Hardy vs Sanchez fight.. I think that would be really interesting

I always thought hardy vs alves made good sense too

it bugged me how people had brock lesnar on there list the dude had like 4 wins like come on you cant be pound 4 pound with 5 fights

How long must we hear about fedor? Ill admit back in the Pride days he was the most dominating fighter of all time. But look how we felt about all the Pride fighters before they came over to the UFC (crocop) and since joining the UFC how many of them have kept their dominating status? And the other fighters on the p4p list are champions, meaning they have to fight the #1contender every fight. Fedor seldom fights anymore and when he does its his choice and his terms. If he had to fight carwin, dos santos, cain and brock in 2 yrs we'd be talking about the legend hall of famer fedor not a current top p4p'r