It will also be the biggest upset ! He has improved but so has GSP. Careful Kos with talking in 3rd person, fighters who do that tend to get KTFO recently.
WOW.. This thread is nothing but GSP rainbow color spandex NUTHUGGERS! LOL!
Mohawkblue totally agrees!
It's the path of least resistance. It's just really hard to defend/like a tool like Kos. He's not very bright and a horrible trash talk player- way out of his league. I must say I was impressed that he apologized to the male nurse however.
lame.... the term you so valiantly refer to as ''nuthugger'' is that supposed to be a derogatory term for fans simply trying to express their opinion? you are obviously incapable of coming up with a valid response or argument to the discussion.... hence your unintelligent remark..... i look forward to your reply....
GSP is going to dominate him n beat him in w.e way he chooses
ninja.....yes! Georges is a complete mixed martial artist - very well rounded and just better than josh in every aspect of the game..... i dont see any area that josh excels in, that Georges does not surpass with his skill set.... overall gsp is well accomplished and polished in areas that josh is still a little rough around the edges on..... josh will have the punchers chance that every underdog has though....
agreed it will be the same as the last fight.
Lay and pray doesnt make a complete mixed martial artist. Old George is only going to do what it takes for him to win his fights, and lets face it, he isnt going to trade/ dig in against anyone. Those days are over. George couldnt even finish the Hardy who had 0 ground game. He layed and prayed the whole time! Was a complete waste of $50 and 25min of everyones time. Kos is right, he finishes fights and he also has a big mouth. My prediction is Kos runs out of gas in the 3rd. It becomes a lay and pray for the last 2 rounds. George takes the split decision. Save the 50 bucks boys this prediction is gold.
I think you make an interesting case and have taken a logical position.
I would like to make you a gentlemans bet. If the fight ends via a decision for Mr GSP I will donate 10 dollars to a charity of your choice. If however the fight ends in a KO or submission for GSP then you donate 10 dollars to a charity of my choice.
Do you have the gold?
I'd like to know who you think is more well rounded than GSP in MMA ko4u. It's easy to waffle crap like you do, even a 4 year old could do it, but can you back your BS up with and decent logic? Noooooooo, of course you can't because it's impossible to back up BS with decent logic.
GSP is p4p #1 in most peoplres opinion for a reason. he dominates world class fighters in all areas, standing, grappling, jiu jitsu. He out strikes fighters like BJ Penn, out wrestles guys like Fitch. He is a complete MMA fighter. Sure he has used his TD's and control more lately since Serra got lucky, but he doesn't lay and pray. Anyone who really believes that is ignorant and stupid. He always follows with submission attempt or GnP. He aint no Shields or Evans, he is the one and only fukin GSP!!!
I don't dissagree with him being very good at everything but i do think there are more well rounded people like AS, and others not as well known like Dominick Cruz, Urijah Faber, and Jose Aldo. I do think GSP is dominant in controlling his opponents more so than every aspect of the game. He just happens to be the best at the single most important aspect of this game and thats octagon control. I am not saying he is not a p4p contender but the reason for his status is not in the way he is the most well rounded but the fact he can control anyone by quickly taking it to the ground. No shame in it, just I don't see him better all around than the others I mentioned and as far as p4p he comes 5th in my ranking as I feel Jose aldo at same weight would be more dangerous and also Urijah and Dominick Cruz as well. AS is still my number 1 but I am willing to drop him off that spot if he is beaten by Vitor decisively.
Yeah Anderson Silva, more well-rounded than GSP? Are we talking about the same sport here? Did you miss the Sonnen fight?...
Thats one aspect of a fight and also seems we keep forgetting it was AS injured and trying to dedicate a fight to nog jj and also a chael pumped with roids. If anything AS is far more versatile than GSP. when is the last time GSP did anything different?
falcon... trying to dedicate a fight to nog bjj...? so you are trying to say he (purposely) let sonnen take him down and beat him up, all in hope of catching a submission victory (that he later did)..... im not sure about that one..... also mr. sonnen has a hearing before the athletic commission coming up shortly.... so before you label him '' pumped full of roids'' perhaps wait for the outcome of the hearing, before passing judgement..... that is known as prejudice.... a.silva is more versatile when it comes to his strength - striking.... but georges puts his game together alot better - mixes everything up well...
I agree with the part about me jumping the gun on Chael so I won't any more. But when has AS worn his bjj gear before a fight and when has he layed on the bottom without much effort to get back up wilst continually throwing his legs up for a triangle attempt. Nearly never. He usually always tries to get back up so he can do what he does best. I do not however believe the result was what he had planned but I do however believe we had a different AS that night. I don't argue that GSP puts in a better strategy as he puts in far more safe fights on most occasions. But these guys are saying GSP is better than AS at everything. I find GSP is not willing to stand up in fights with dedicated strikers like AS will but thses guys think he has done more in facing strikers which is pure BS.
falcon... striking goes to a.silva..... wrestling goes to gsp...... bjj - i'd say they're pretty even in that department..... however gsp in top position with his wrestling and bjj credentials would (in my opinion) negate a.silvas bjj (offence) from the bottom, and gsp would most likely be in top position if it did go to the ground..... a.silva vs sonnen - perhaps the injury was (is) true... no one knows for sure....but perhaps father time is catching up with anderson..... in all fairness he hasn't been as impressive lately as we've seen in the past....
I think it's funny how you don't even have AS in your p4p list at all. Desperate attempts to keep him in second place it seems.
AIght Aight, Obviously I didnt make any new friends with my post but I did read everyones post with a open mind. There are fights where GSP came out guns a blazing.....years ago. I am saying those days are over. He played it safe with Hardy. Its not anyones fault but his own he couldnt do a proper arm bar. If he is going to keep it on the ground the entire fight maybe he should brush up on his submissions. If he would have sat up and let it loose then I would have nothing to say on the subject. 3 of the last 5 fights have went to decision. I dont know what rounded to you means but rounded to me it is offence/defence. Anderson getting pumpled for 5 rounds then snagging the triangle at the end throws him higher in my book than GSP. Roy Jones jr was the ultimate fighter till everyone found out he had no chin. He played his speed strength and KO power to win fights. GSP is doing the same. I am not saying he is a bad fighter, Im just saying that he is a lay and pray. He said it himself in his interview. I am faster,stronger, and wrestle better than KOS. He didnt say I hit harder and will bang out the win! Just my point of view!!
Your MW ranking are the funniest thing i have ever seen.
@kod4....how did GSP just lay n pray Hardy?? so u consider armbar attempts, kneebar attempts, kimura attempts, RNC attempts, and guard passing lay and pray??...only recent fight GSP did lay and pray was against Alves and that was after he pulled his groin
He was never in any danger with Hardy as long as Hardy was on his back. I'm not saying he didnt attempt to submit him. I am saying he was in no way going to do anything other than keep him on his back for 25 glorious min! Was there any time in that fight you stood up and said Oh ...here they go! nah lay and pray.
ko2u..... i am fully aware of the term you use (lay n pray) does not make a compete mixed martial artist, you are solely trying to deter the fact that gsp is an all round master in his chosen disciplines..... you simply have never watched him fight or compete if you are that short sighted, i seem to remember georges out striking t. alves in their fight, besting bj in their two encounters and tko'in hughes with some gnp after dropping him with a head kick....... now, as to him not finishing hardy - i think that speaks more for hardy by not submitting rather than gsp's submission skills, dan showed alot of heart in that fight to not give up and probably won him over some fans...... being a waste of money in your estimation is an opinion that some may or may not agree with..... Kos finishes fights? yes against low tier opponents he ko'd yoshida (not sure if he's still with the ufc) he took rumble(a striker) to the ground and submitted him- good win.... then utilised this lay n pray (as you call it) against daley (another striker) to get a decision victory en route to a title shot...... now is that an impressive streak even deemed worthy of a title shot? kos runs out of gas - possibly. i see mr. st. pierre winning this decisively, with josh flailing around trying to keep up with him, until gsp decides to finish it........
Fitch out did Alves as well in the striking dept. GSP is great but not as good as others on his feet and as far as we can tell his real dominance has been in controling his opponent from the top and the rest he is good at but he deliberatley avoids certain areas for a reason with different competition in front of him as he has said before and taught his TUF guys to play safe and just focus on the win and not entering your oponents strengths. He said he always trains for the weakest points in his oponents game instead of trying to prove a point that could turn out disasterous. He is good all around but it's easy to be in 1st and 2nd spot for p4p when your amoung the most popular in MMA. People don't know about many of the lighter fighters like Dominick Cruz who I think is better than GSP overall. GSP is still on my list though and for good reason.
Nah I have watched him, and thats why I posted how I felt about his last few fights. So much talent, and yet...Id rather watch a bar fight between 2 fatties giving it thier all! GSP is fighting like he is about to be cut from the UFC. How can you watch a fighter like Wandy... leaving it in the ring every time. Then watch GSP, and say to yourself wow Im glad I paid this 50 bucks to see this crap. Freaking WWE has more action.
I see the technical point of what your say...yeah he hasnt lost and yea he is the champ but ...boring!! P4P means wow what a fight. You see him own that guy??GSP has lost his spark IMO!! These are just my thoughts fellas.
I would disagree Falcon.....I consider GSP top 3 most well rounded fighters in MMA today, he can outstrike any fighter and out grapple anyone because he is a smart fighter, I don't think currently anyone can beat GSP, he would dominate Anderson worse than Chael, he would easily beat Aldo, Penn, Edgar, Cruz, etc until fighters start to stuff GSP's take downs consistently I dont see him losing because when GSP has his take downs he confuses opponents and beats them striking and on the ground
I don't hate that people have him top 3 but I beleive his striking although good and technical is behind guys like AS and Dominick Cruz. As far as beating AS, I doubt it very much. I think Chael would have controlled GSP too. But Chael was cheating and AS was injured. So to base it off of that fight in my opinion would be a mistake. Nobody saw AS even try to get back up, he never just lays there. I would say GSP is smart and he always comes in with a gameplan, but there is a reason his gameplan has changed so much recently, his best chance is to never allow the guy he's facing be at his strength. I don't think he would have out struck Hardy although it would be close and possible. I feel he is however much better than hardy in MMA and that is where the difference is. AS is one guy that has showed all aspects of the game and although he lacks some in wrestling he is exceptional at all else. Urijah Faber although I don't have him ranked above AS may be the most well rounded guy I have seen or possibly Aldo but Aldo has barely reached into much else than striking.
I usually agree with you but to say that GSP would dominate A.S worse than Chael is completely false. GSP is a great fighter, however he has absolutely NO shot against A.S.
Well I consider GSP a better wrestler than Sonnen so i'm just basing my prediction on how dominant Sonnen was against Silva thats y I think GSP would dominate SIlva
AS has great hands and great knees which with his great height advantage he usually enjoys complimenting them skills make him look fantastic at times. Well rounded? I would say not. I have seen in him in trouble more than once on his back even though he does have some good jiu jitsu, he isn't a great wrestler at all. I know I will probably get flamed by some, but I don't rate him very highly at all compard to other fighters in terms of all round ability, although I do credit him with outstanding muay thai.
AS displays great standup and great groundgame and although he may have been in trouble he always found a way out in the UFC where as GSP got KO'd which nobody has found the lucky punch with AS. GSP is not that great at JJ and AS is, GSP is a good striker and AS is a great striker, AS is not very good at Wrestling and GSP is great at it. AS is good at improvising like a natuaral fighter, GSP is not at all an improvisor. AS challenged GSP at his own weight and there was no reply, nuff said.
A Silva doesn't fight many fighters with great stand up. GSP does. It's no surprise GSP has been KO'd looking at how many great strikers there are in the WW division. What great strikers can you name that AS has been in with? Not many.
falcon..... a.silva does display great striking..... however you are saying great groundgame?..... who has he submitted.... two wrestlers with suspect submission defence and a long line of submission defeats..... gsp is not great at bjj? could you please elaborate on this.... and a. silva is.... their both blackbelts..... i agree with the striking part..... and the wrestling part..... improvising doesn't really play a big part in my estimation.... gsp has great strategy.... a.silva challenged him..... i remember hearing dana and the fertittas saying if both gsp and silva get past their next opponents.... they will set the fight up.... at 185lbs (i believe)
Yeah well that fight was supposed to happen already and even GSP himself said at the time he won't face AS until he is ready to retire. What does that say? Fact is AS called and nobody answered even though Dana said it would. Then it was blamed on AS ****y performance. How should that make a difference? Get his ass wooped if you believe GSP can do it. I think Dana knew and GSP knew it was a bad option for the sport as AS would most likely win and could easily fight at GSP's weight. Why did GSP say he didn't want to fight AS until he was ready to retire?
perhaps age is a factor (a.s is 35) .... and (at the time) maybe a. silva had hinted at retirement... or possibly (the ufc) had an opponent/ contender lined up for a.s before he expressed his interest in fighting/ challenging gsp.... i am not sure when this challenge was made/ offered.... so i can't say for sure......
He was promised the fight after he beat Maia and then when he humiliated Maia the fight was taken as a discipline. In my eyes both GSP and Dana were not comfortable with that fight and especially Dana now that his num 1 pick was hated and would probably beat GSP who also made the statement after watching the fight with maia that he would keep AS fight for when he retires from MMA.
GSP spends so much time on top of his oponents and in control that if he had great JJ he would have scored wins over more than one great ground fighter(Hughes). He has good jj not great jj. AS has defeated far more formidable ground opponents like DAn Henderson and yes the always submitting Chael and Travis Lutter who is also good on the ground. So there are your points. Improvising is critical in many fights like the recent one armed kimora and Urijah Faber would be good at displaying the advantages of being able to improvise and not only that but AS himself has destroyed oponents with surprises of his own like the weird elbow knockout and his awkward striking of forrest. I sure hope the fight happens now if it will.
falcon.....interesting fact - gsp has 5 submission victories with one submission defeat..... whereas a. silva has 5 submission victories with 2 submission losses.... i think its fair to say they're both accomplished on the ground and on level ground in that aspect...... as to his stand up...... it speaks for itself..... gsp does improvise, and adapts to his opponents weaknesses therefore dictating the pace of the fight and where the fight takes place..... i (too) hope the fight materialises.......
Rich Franklin, Forrset Griffin, Dan Henderson, Patrick Cote, Nate Marquardt, Lee Murray, James Irvin, Chris Leben all show decent standup with Lee Murray, Rich Franklin, Nate Marquardt and James Irvin being the top of those. GSP has faced Dan Hardy which he immediately brought to the ground, Thaigo Alves which he immediately brought to the ground and BJ Penn who (guess what) he brought immediately to the ground. Who else is there that GSP out struck that even was givin a chance to start throwing? Your thinking with heart more than logic by calling out AS for not facing top competition. AS is in a different league than GSP when it comes to striking and the strikers he has faced.
You don't have AS in your p4p rankings or even your top 10 MW rankings even though you have Dan Henderson in there which was stopped by AS. You are not dillusional, you specifically hate AS and that is why you don't show him even though he has the best record in the UFC. You can't even place him tenth at MW? What is wrong with you?
And even with all the strikers that AS has faced not one of them has had their so called lucky punch get through even though AS willingly stands with them. Don't be fooled.
falcon..... i beg to differ (from a neutral perspective) being a longtime fan of bot gsp and silva.... silva was technically superior to forrest and was joyous to watch.... the fact is silva (as good as he is) most of his victories (in the ufc) are against fighters that aren't even with the promotion anymore ( maybe thats why so many are sceptical about him in regard to rankings) ..... if he was so great at jj wouldn't he of took it to the ground against maia, leites etc and submitted them....? now, on to gsp.... in the hardy fight i think he was looking for a submission victory but dan toughed his attempts out...... in regard to penn and alves, i seem to remember georges comfortably out striking them and mixing up his takedowns well to keep them guessing.... even dropping t. alves on a few occassions..... in termsof who has faced the more elite opponents in their divisions.... i'd have to go with gsp, the reason being georges has consistently been facing the top fighters in his stacked division.... whereas the middleweight division has struggled with finding contenders.... i believe you may be thinking with more heart than logic my friend...... i by no means think silva is in a different league they are both ''kings'' of their respective divisions.... but i see the welterweight division being a better one in terms of depth and worthy contenders to that of the (thin) middleweight division..... i look forward to your reply.....
Well AS actually did submit good ground gamers more often than GSP. Like I said GSP has continually led everyone to the same outcome of being on bottom of him and throws a couple strikes with the only intent to get them there. GSP was not forced to stand and then outstruck his oponents where as AS was forced down to the ground and submitted his opponents. When I said AS was in a different league you would have obviously read that it was concerning strikers and striking right? Well you left that quote out. I never said he was in a different leaugue as a champ but I did state as a striker so if you dissagree I wait.
falcon.... i believe a. silva has superior striking to that of gsp... but then one could make the argument that gsp has superior wrestling to a.s.... the fight starts on the feet.... but more often than not it goes to the ground... i wouldn't say different league but definitely superior.... if silva was in a different league then wouldn't he be competing in (just) striking orientated events such as k-1 etc.......
Do you agree it is rediculous to not mention AS in top 10 MW and p4p since thats where this started? azzkika is completely corrupted to think that.
falcon.... yes! silva is undoubtedly the best mw in mma (for now) but i see belfort causing all sorts of problems for him..... as to the people leaving him out of the mw rankings... i suspect they are just bitter.... yes he should be (at least) top 5 regarding p4p...
I also see Vitor causing problems stylistically. I am comfortable with everything in your last post. thanks for the debate which led to AS and GSP both being contenders which was my only real point to make to azzkika. Cheers.
falcon.... Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat
Excellent post Nunchaku,
I am in full agreement on each point.
thank you odesa, your contribution is much appreciated....
Its the biggest fight of his life not only for the belt, but more for what his mouth has said all during Tuff
GSP by GSP
GSP by decision... seems to be the usual trend
And those decisions were all dominating ones...
not very close decision wins like Machida v Rampage, Machida v Shogun I.
Care to take a look at GSP's resume and see the guys he's finished?
Lmfao I'm not saying that GSP hasn't finished people. I'm saying for the past few fights it's all been decision. Hence why I said "trend." Everyone knows what GSP is capable of doing if he wants to finish someone.
It isn't always a case of wanting to finish someone. I doubt GSP ever starts a fight aiming to win by decision. You have to realise the calibre of opponent he is facing, and lately he's been facing guys who have been known for having great stand up. Using great mma to counter this is what any good mma fighter would do. I believe if GSP wnated to break hardy's arm/shoulder he easily could have, but I think he isn't that way inclined.
GSP is definitely going into a fight to win by decision and possibly get a stoppage. GSP said himself that he fights NOT TO LOSE that means outpointing and decisioning. You can talk about caliber all you want but GSP is definitely capable of finishing anyone he just doesn't want to.
That guy really likes Josh Koscheck...
he's probly the only guy that likes josh koscheck
lets see how good GSP is off his back, im pretty sure Josh can put him there durring that 5 round fight.
If you have followed GSP from the start of his career you would know he is excellent off his back.
I've enjoyed watching GSP constantly out think Kos on TUF, and I have no doubt that it will continue in the octagon. Last fight, Kos wasn't prepared for GSP to out wrestle him and I expect a similar strategic surprise this time.
Let's be fair, Kos has evolved as fighter, though maybe not so much as a person. But I'm betting GSP has evolved more and will have a game plan that leaves 'blondie' once again shaking his head at the end of the fight...
...once he regains consciousness.
It would be awesome if GSP taps Kos out via RNC just like most of Kos's picks
Been thinking what Kos's face would like if GSP done him by RNC. Would be hilarious.
this will be a very competitive fight. Im not expecting GSP to walk through Kos like he did every1 else
They are two different types of fighters and athletes. George is a techniqual, well-rounded, polished fighter, while Kos is a rough around the edges, strong and explosive fighter. Kos definitely has a chance, especially in the early going, but he would have to finish the fight in the first 2 or 3 rounds, which will be tough to do. I wanna see someone push GSP, just to see how he makes adjustments midfight and if he'll turn it up when he has to.
I think this fight can go either way and it's like a 60/40 split for GSP. This is JUST MY OPINION, guys.
it's a big fight but i can't see it being an exciting fight. personally i'd have more respect for gsp if he showcased all the skills that he obviously has rather than just his wrestling and jiu jitsu. i guess he just got shook up by that loss to serra and realised that if you keep things standing anything can happen.
but i'd really love to see him show us his kickboxing again. and he apparently has one of the best muay thai coaches in the world. so it'd be a shame not to see him put it to use. especially against a guy that i don't think would pose nearly as great a threat to gsp as say shields or fitch.
shields will get eaten if he faces GSP. If Shields beats GSP I will never post again.
i like kos! i like gsp! and i like penn now even better since he is back in his welter weight.
Assuming a split decision win for GSP is assuming that there will be even one second of this fight that is competitive. GSP is going to wreck him. When is the last time Georges lost a round?? It isn't going to happen.
That's an interesting question. It could be argued that the last round he lost was the first round or his (last) fight with Penn; maybe. I personally gave the first to Rush. If that be the case, then the answer would be round one of the Matt Serra fight; 26 rounds, ago.
And agreed - no it isn't going to happen. It'll be interesting to see if Kos bothers trying to take GSP down. That would be pretty dangerous. He has no hope on the ground against Rush. He couldn't do anything with Paul Daley, what's he going to do with George on the ground?
He has one chance and that's a lucky punch. And if Alves couldn't touch George, how does Koscheck expect to catch him?
All Kos has is that looping overhand right. He could land it, it's mma and anything can happen, but the odds are massively in GSP's favour in this fight. Skill set, fitness, strength and history all point to a win for GSP. I do believe Kos has improved his wrestling, so will be interesting to see how he matches up now, but I will surprised if he can get GSP in trouble either standing or on the ground.
Dear Mr. Koscheck
If you "come around 360" you are exactly where you started, and you are facing in exactly the same direction. I'm just sayin...
Good luck in your fight.
Come on Kos , don't start talking for your self as a seperate entity...remember what happened to the last fighter who did that? What's next...deer rifle hunting?
Just kidding though...its gonna be an excellent and very technical fight, good luck to both of them!
Kos didn't expect Georges wrestling to be as good as it was the first fight. It was a close fight, it was basically who had the most take-downs that won the fight. Kos won't make that mistake again, everybody knows how good GSP's take-downs. I would not be surprised if Kos can stuff his TD's and spring up to his feet, to keep the fight standing. Kos has heavier hands as well. I'm pulling for Kos on this one, he seems very motivated.
I know there are those that are upset that GSP doesn't emphasize or focus on his stand-up and that they would like to see that; particularly, with Rush just having spent time working with Freddie Roach.
With that said, in this fight what I'd like to see is exactly that - a ground fight. I want to see GSP take this guy down and maul him. Koscheck is always going on about what a great wrestler he is...okay, I'd like to see GSP put him on the ground, feed him elbows and then rear naked choke his ass, out. I think it would be fitting.
I certainly will not complain if GSP stands and I certainly want to see what George has learned and how he has improved since working with FR, but in this fight I want to see The Champ just run through him on the ground.
I want GSP to clearly establish that he is the faster, quicker, better, more athletic and more powerful wrestler; to shut Koscheck's mouth for all time on the subject of whose the best (at it) @ 170.
Of all the fighters in the UFC, I can easily state that he is the (truly) the one fighter I do not like. I can't stand him and he'd be a lousy champ.
Kos might think he can get under GSP's skin and force a mental mistake .. but i see him getting under his skin and possibly getting a limb broken.
He has an ass kicking coming and it will be delivered.
I honestly don't think Kos is a prick. People love to see champions fall down. It's just with time people get bored. People want to see Fedor, Anderson, GSP, Chuck, Wand, BJ, Also etc. all the greats fall. We've witnessed the fall of Fedor, BJ (don't think it's a permanent fall) and Chuck. On the flipside, they want them to come in a spectacular fashion. Especially in MMA, crazy **** goes down all the time. Anybody on a long enough streak is just flipping a coin.