It most certainly is a freakshow. Dana (or gayna, as you called him) even called it a freakshow himself, and the only reason this fight is happening (apart from the good old $) is because dana wants to shut boxers up once and for all.
i dont think its a freakshow... it's not like bringing in DMX to fight butterbean.. THATS a freakshow.. they are both credible fighters, legends in their own sports, around same age, i think it's actually a great match up that should have happened in like 94-95.. its too bad they didnt bring in a world class boxer to have him sub'd by royce or slammed on his head by severn, or knee ripped off by shamrock.. oh well, 10yrs late is better than never
i think if dana wanted to shut boxers once and for all he should have given toney a striker to really prove his point, this is just kinda unfair and it really doesnt prove shit
There is where your wrong... he is proving to boxers that they dont belong here by giving him couture. you say, he should give him a striker. well, this isnt boxing now is it. If they cant wrestle and defend the takedown, they dont belong in MMA! So there you go. it proves everything.
NO he literally said at the UFC 116 post presser that he was "making an example out of james toney" and in a previous radio show he said "i'm the first one to criticize someone if they put on a freakshow, and i have to admit, i'm putting on a freakshow".
How can anyone deny it if dana doesnt even deny it?
Toney has had ZERO bouts, he does NOT have a grappling backround, which makes for a much easier transition than a striking backround, he is fighting a wrestler, which more or less ALWAYS has their way with boxers. How can this NOT be called a freakshow?
And why would giving him a striker make more of an example of toney? A wrestler will make him look like a fish out of water, while a striker might make him look semi-good!
nah you're totaly right... james toney unless fighting someone who utalizes great leg kicks, and takes out his movement would almost garunteed to get k.o.d Toneys a phenominal boxer, one of the best... only real losses are to roy jones junior... are you ****ing kidding? That guys striking is phenominal and if someone is going to try to stand and strike with him, and not try to either put the best puncher on his back or kick the shit out of his legs they're going to sleep quick things and thats a fact. But i doubt he can survive, with all the great wrestlers in heavyweight, his lack of ground game and he's also at a huge size deficite.
I agree. I can only imagine what a high level striker in 205 would do to this guy. If they fed Toney to a guy like a John Jones, Brendan Vera, Lyota Machida.
It would be pretty funny to see the look on Toney's face as he reacted to a JJ spinning backfist (at lightning speed), BV sitting outside and whaling on his legs with vicious shin kicks or LM sitting darting in and out with straight punches and kicks to the head. Randy is really just a (world class) wrestler, with some okay boxing and incredible cardio.
If DW really wanted to see how Toney would do, they should have put him up against someone who has the complete set; can kick, punch, wrestle, submit...all of it; Little Nog would have been a good choice for Toney.
And if he wanted to fight at HW, I know they'd all kill him, but I'd love to see what Pat Barry would do to Toney. Or, hey, a farewell present to Cro Cop (if he's retiring). I bet Marco would have loved that; would have been a license to just unload for MC.
I wouldnt totally call this a freak show. Unlike guys, such as Kimbo and Herschel Walker, Toney is world class boxer and champion. Im picking Randy to win the fight, but you CANNOT count out Toney, for the simple fact this fight is going to start standing.
Idk, Toney does have some of the best boxing in recent history, it's not like hes Jose Cansenco or Hershel Walker, Toney is a legit fighter so I wouldn't consider it a freak show
Not as bad as the tim sylvia fight, atleast toney has a legitimate chance in his hands and if he learned some takedown defense, he could be a contender in that division easily
People will vote yes, because they're children who can't be bothered to think. All they know is *duh* the UFC is BAD! *duh* And Dana is bad! *duh*. That's the depth of their logic.
There have been many many pro-boxers to transition to MMA, many have been successful. Let's see someone name a more accomplished boxer turned MMA fighter with a better pedigree than Toney?
Well km, what Toney as done to earn his shot, is he dominated the world of pro boxing like few fighters ever have. He's one of the all-time-greats. Many many boxers have justified a UFC contract with less. It really is boxing versus MMA since Toney is under the dangerous impression that simply throwing an uppercut will thwart any take-down.
It's not a freak-show, but Toney has very little chance of winning. Boxers simply don't fit MMA unless they adapt, chance their stance, their balance.
Look at Berbick. The guy who beat Ali then went 2 rounds with Tyson (surviving one round with a young Tyson is an incredible accomplishment for any boxer). He tried early MMA, against some Japanese nobody. Check out the fight if you haven't seen it.
Define freakshow though. It's hard to argue that Toney hasn't justified a shot. And, Randy seems like reasonable mid-level competition for such an all-time-great champion to take his shot at... Was it a freakshow when Vitor tried pro-boxing and won? Anderson had two boxing matches before coming to MMA, he's not a freakshow.
Toney should have some of the most deadly hands in all of MMA. He deserves the chance to get his ass kicked by an old wrestler.
I like how he pretended to not know kicking was going to be allowed. He's wearing like, MLB catcher's leg armor, but he didn't know there would be kicks allowed... Mmmhhhmmm...
What? EVERYONE called that a freakshow. Thats the ONE thing dana always refers to when atlking about freakshows, and that is kimbo slices fights in elite XC.
Yeah, the best boxer to make the move from boxing to MMA. And why did he choose the pro-organization instead of Strikeforce? Because he's a real champion who wants to challenge himself.
It's ridiculous. Anyone who has seen oldschool UFC knows that grapplers always had a natural advantage over strikers. It's just a fact of human anatomy. It's easier for a wrestler to tie up a boxer and take him down than it is for the boxer to score a perfect knockout. And when it's on the ground the boxer has no chance.
I really think Dana is just trying to prove a point here, and is covering all of his bases. If Toney loses, Dana can claim MMA is better than boxing. If Randy loses, he can claim Randy was just too old.
The sad thing is I think it won't really prove anything. James Toney is just an over-the-hill boxer with absolutely no MMA experience at all. I doubt Dana is planning to keep him around for any length of time.
Why is everything automatically a scheme? People like to dislike Dana White, but it's never made sense to me. If someone loves MMA, they should be on their knees kissing his ass. It might have been 100 years before MMA took it's rightful place as the dominant global sport. Thanks to the UFC and actually brilliant marketing by Dana White (he's good at his job), MMA will probably have taken over Soccer in popularity within 20 years.
I think Dana White and the UFC have been pretty honest and candid. They come from boxing, and they know what people want, and what the problems with the old model were that created all the dysfunction and destroyed boxing. They admitted that they gave Kimbo a shot, because the fans wanted it, which is a legitimate reason to sign him, and it shows that they are receptive to their audience. James Toney was basically stalking Dana White, and harassing him, and making his youtube videos... There is plenty of justification to sign Toney, the fans want to see him (win or lose), and Toney should have been more careful what he wished for.
He doesn't punch anywhere near as hard as Shane Carwin. And he actually believes he can put his hands on that HW belt... You have to give him credit though, he didn't ask for easy fights. Just like Lesnar didn't ask for easy fights. A champion, is someone who would dive in fighting at the highest level that the organization is willing to give them. Lesnar could have gotten blown out of the sport, if he lost his first few learning-fights. It took balls for him to face Francsis. For a total rookie, they tossed him to the wolves... He was in way over his head, swimming with sharks, and he vindicated himself by competing and winning. That's what Toney wants, and he deserves the chance to try. He could knock Randy cold with one punch, and people would be excited to see his next fight. That's good for the UFC. If he loses, that's good, if he wins, that's good.
The reason I voted yes is as Dana admitted he wants to make an example of James Toney. Dana is hoping Toney gets taken down and Randy makes an example of him.
If this weren't the case, if Toney were not 41, and was really training (he's 220 pounds in a 160 pound mans body) and trying to make a run at MMA I would vote no since his boxing creditials would be more than enough to usually make him credible.
He is a boxer(obviously past his prime) who once was a man amongst boys in the sport although steroids has troubled his career. He is definitely a threat as far as striking goes and his puncher's chance is very high. However, he is not ready for Captain America....and he will never be...ever...
Personally I do not think its a freak show at all.... Toney comes in with a legitimate skill, just like other guys that come from just wrestling backgrounds or BJJ, etc ect Most fighters do start with one skill set and then evolve into mixed martial artists. With that being said, its a little late in life for Toney to ever become a true mma fighter, but I say let the man test his skill.
Now with all that aside, the only thing that is actually turning it into a freak show is James Toney's mouth!! Although, sometimes the truth shines thru and he has said before that he truly respects mma and that these guys work hard etc etc, so the whole boxer vs mma is just a promotional showing. I think he actually respects and wants to be a part of the sport, but as long as he is opening his mouth and allowing words to come out he will never be taken seriously.
Nvm, I just now saw the video of Ariel Helwani interviewing Toney and I take it back... James Toney is a moron. I already knew that to some degree but now he is a disrespectful moron.... Its one thing to be a moron, but its another to be a moron that thinks he is smart.
I see this more like a science experiment than a freak show. All questions will be answered and the subject for debate will be put to rest. We have seasoned vets both with a legacy and with flaws. Although it will never be an even match, I think that this is gonna be as balanced as it will ever get when lining up an mma fighter against a boxer. Good luck to both fighters. The world will be awaiting the outcome!
I voted yes but i just think its more of an execution than a freakshow. Tony may be comin into the ufc with some reasonable skill.....but when its boxing..............and NOTHING ELSE then i dont see him makin a big enough jump in ability to take on anyone in the mma world. The second he gets hit with a leg kick or gets takin down and put in a bad position he is not gunna kno what to do and all hes gunna do is try to survive. Dana just wants to make an example out of tony thats how i see it cause the man dont like him already and when ur a dumbass who thinks hes the next big thing.....no one will take u seriously.
i agree Toney is a world champ randy won't wanna trade shot with him. The problem is Toney as a man not a fighter his attitude and personality stinks that what makes it seem like a freak show he's ignorant and it's hard to understand him it. BUT if a kick boxer switched to mma and was unknown the term freak show wouldn't even get brought up.
I don't see it as a freak show, even though Toney is trying to make it one all by himself. He simply is not giving MMA the respect it deserves, and believes he can easily compete in MMA and do very well. The UFC is offering a challenge to Toney to come in from a different sport as a dominant boxer and try to compete with MMA's best fighters, much as they did with Kimbo coming from a street fighting background. It's that simple. Dana likes to issue challenges to athletes from any and all walks of life who truly believe they can compete in the UFC, because he firmly believes that MMA is the number one hand to hand combat sport in the world, just like so many of us do. "If you think you are better, show me" is what he is telling him.
Comments
Gayna's the freak show!
It most certainly is a freakshow. Dana (or gayna, as you called him) even called it a freakshow himself, and the only reason this fight is happening (apart from the good old $) is because dana wants to shut boxers up once and for all.
i dont think its a freakshow... it's not like bringing in DMX to fight butterbean.. THATS a freakshow.. they are both credible fighters, legends in their own sports, around same age, i think it's actually a great match up that should have happened in like 94-95.. its too bad they didnt bring in a world class boxer to have him sub'd by royce or slammed on his head by severn, or knee ripped off by shamrock.. oh well, 10yrs late is better than never
I think that they should bring Royce in just to submit Toney....old school.
i think if dana wanted to shut boxers once and for all he should have given toney a striker to really prove his point, this is just kinda unfair and it really doesnt prove shit
There is where your wrong... he is proving to boxers that they dont belong here by giving him couture. you say, he should give him a striker. well, this isnt boxing now is it. If they cant wrestle and defend the takedown, they dont belong in MMA! So there you go. it proves everything.
NO he literally said at the UFC 116 post presser that he was "making an example out of james toney" and in a previous radio show he said "i'm the first one to criticize someone if they put on a freakshow, and i have to admit, i'm putting on a freakshow".
How can anyone deny it if dana doesnt even deny it?
Toney has had ZERO bouts, he does NOT have a grappling backround, which makes for a much easier transition than a striking backround, he is fighting a wrestler, which more or less ALWAYS has their way with boxers. How can this NOT be called a freakshow?
And why would giving him a striker make more of an example of toney? A wrestler will make him look like a fish out of water, while a striker might make him look semi-good!
Am i the only one seeing it this way?
Nope.
nah you're totaly right... james toney unless fighting someone who utalizes great leg kicks, and takes out his movement would almost garunteed to get k.o.d Toneys a phenominal boxer, one of the best... only real losses are to roy jones junior... are you ****ing kidding? That guys striking is phenominal and if someone is going to try to stand and strike with him, and not try to either put the best puncher on his back or kick the shit out of his legs they're going to sleep quick things and thats a fact. But i doubt he can survive, with all the great wrestlers in heavyweight, his lack of ground game and he's also at a huge size deficite.
@ daigoro702
I agree. I can only imagine what a high level striker in 205 would do to this guy. If they fed Toney to a guy like a John Jones, Brendan Vera, Lyota Machida.
It would be pretty funny to see the look on Toney's face as he reacted to a JJ spinning backfist (at lightning speed), BV sitting outside and whaling on his legs with vicious shin kicks or LM sitting darting in and out with straight punches and kicks to the head. Randy is really just a (world class) wrestler, with some okay boxing and incredible cardio.
If DW really wanted to see how Toney would do, they should have put him up against someone who has the complete set; can kick, punch, wrestle, submit...all of it; Little Nog would have been a good choice for Toney.
And if he wanted to fight at HW, I know they'd all kill him, but I'd love to see what Pat Barry would do to Toney. Or, hey, a farewell present to Cro Cop (if he's retiring). I bet Marco would have loved that; would have been a license to just unload for MC.
I like your idea... a retirement gift for CroCop .......funny
I wouldnt totally call this a freak show. Unlike guys, such as Kimbo and Herschel Walker, Toney is world class boxer and champion. Im picking Randy to win the fight, but you CANNOT count out Toney, for the simple fact this fight is going to start standing.
Idk, Toney does have some of the best boxing in recent history, it's not like hes Jose Cansenco or Hershel Walker, Toney is a legit fighter so I wouldn't consider it a freak show
So true...he contradicts himself more than Toney...
its not a freak show because both fighters are former world champions
Yeah, former world champions in two different sports. Its like the world champ in tennis taking in the world champ in ping pong in a tennis match.
Not as bad as the tim sylvia fight, atleast toney has a legitimate chance in his hands and if he learned some takedown defense, he could be a contender in that division easily
People will vote yes, because they're children who can't be bothered to think. All they know is *duh* the UFC is BAD! *duh* And Dana is bad! *duh*. That's the depth of their logic.
There have been many many pro-boxers to transition to MMA, many have been successful. Let's see someone name a more accomplished boxer turned MMA fighter with a better pedigree than Toney?
Good luck with that.
Well km, what Toney as done to earn his shot, is he dominated the world of pro boxing like few fighters ever have. He's one of the all-time-greats. Many many boxers have justified a UFC contract with less. It really is boxing versus MMA since Toney is under the dangerous impression that simply throwing an uppercut will thwart any take-down.
It's not a freak-show, but Toney has very little chance of winning. Boxers simply don't fit MMA unless they adapt, chance their stance, their balance.
Look at Berbick. The guy who beat Ali then went 2 rounds with Tyson (surviving one round with a young Tyson is an incredible accomplishment for any boxer). He tried early MMA, against some Japanese nobody. Check out the fight if you haven't seen it.
Define freakshow though. It's hard to argue that Toney hasn't justified a shot. And, Randy seems like reasonable mid-level competition for such an all-time-great champion to take his shot at... Was it a freakshow when Vitor tried pro-boxing and won? Anderson had two boxing matches before coming to MMA, he's not a freakshow.
Toney should have some of the most deadly hands in all of MMA. He deserves the chance to get his ass kicked by an old wrestler.
I like how he pretended to not know kicking was going to be allowed. He's wearing like, MLB catcher's leg armor, but he didn't know there would be kicks allowed... Mmmhhhmmm...
I voted No. I actually interested in this fight and dont see it as a TOTAL FREAKSHOW.
Why didnt all this freak show talk start when kimbo tried to crossover from STREET FIGHTING..Lol
What? EVERYONE called that a freakshow. Thats the ONE thing dana always refers to when atlking about freakshows, and that is kimbo slices fights in elite XC.
Yes. Sign a boxer closer to his prime please. But I'm not opposed to watching freak shows.
nOpE its a heavyweight fight for the sport of boxing vs mma (legit)
uhh washed up boxer vs 46 year old wrestler... yeah freak show
DW says only the best fight in UFC. can't argue with that can we?
This wont prove much in the mma vs boxing debate as both are way past their best, so whoever wins it holds little weight towards either side.
Yeah, the best boxer to make the move from boxing to MMA. And why did he choose the pro-organization instead of Strikeforce? Because he's a real champion who wants to challenge himself.
Give it a rest already!
Cool your panties.
It's ridiculous. Anyone who has seen oldschool UFC knows that grapplers always had a natural advantage over strikers. It's just a fact of human anatomy. It's easier for a wrestler to tie up a boxer and take him down than it is for the boxer to score a perfect knockout. And when it's on the ground the boxer has no chance.
I really think Dana is just trying to prove a point here, and is covering all of his bases. If Toney loses, Dana can claim MMA is better than boxing. If Randy loses, he can claim Randy was just too old.
The sad thing is I think it won't really prove anything. James Toney is just an over-the-hill boxer with absolutely no MMA experience at all. I doubt Dana is planning to keep him around for any length of time.
Why is everything automatically a scheme? People like to dislike Dana White, but it's never made sense to me. If someone loves MMA, they should be on their knees kissing his ass. It might have been 100 years before MMA took it's rightful place as the dominant global sport. Thanks to the UFC and actually brilliant marketing by Dana White (he's good at his job), MMA will probably have taken over Soccer in popularity within 20 years.
I think Dana White and the UFC have been pretty honest and candid. They come from boxing, and they know what people want, and what the problems with the old model were that created all the dysfunction and destroyed boxing. They admitted that they gave Kimbo a shot, because the fans wanted it, which is a legitimate reason to sign him, and it shows that they are receptive to their audience. James Toney was basically stalking Dana White, and harassing him, and making his youtube videos... There is plenty of justification to sign Toney, the fans want to see him (win or lose), and Toney should have been more careful what he wished for.
He doesn't punch anywhere near as hard as Shane Carwin. And he actually believes he can put his hands on that HW belt... You have to give him credit though, he didn't ask for easy fights. Just like Lesnar didn't ask for easy fights. A champion, is someone who would dive in fighting at the highest level that the organization is willing to give them. Lesnar could have gotten blown out of the sport, if he lost his first few learning-fights. It took balls for him to face Francsis. For a total rookie, they tossed him to the wolves... He was in way over his head, swimming with sharks, and he vindicated himself by competing and winning. That's what Toney wants, and he deserves the chance to try. He could knock Randy cold with one punch, and people would be excited to see his next fight. That's good for the UFC. If he loses, that's good, if he wins, that's good.
Not so much Randy, but yea, Toney is a freak
Why?
I voted yes.
The reason I voted yes is as Dana admitted he wants to make an example of James Toney. Dana is hoping Toney gets taken down and Randy makes an example of him.
If this weren't the case, if Toney were not 41, and was really training (he's 220 pounds in a 160 pound mans body) and trying to make a run at MMA I would vote no since his boxing creditials would be more than enough to usually make him credible.
WHO IN THE HELL IS JAMES TONEY? NEVER HEARD OF THE GUY.
CHAMPION OF HUGING AND DANCING AROUND.
He is a boxer(obviously past his prime) who once was a man amongst boys in the sport although steroids has troubled his career. He is definitely a threat as far as striking goes and his puncher's chance is very high. However, he is not ready for Captain America....and he will never be...ever...
DAYNA WILL LET HIM FIGHT. LOSE AND KICK HIS SORRY ASS OUT OF MMA. ITS GOING TO BE FUNNY.
Personally I do not think its a freak show at all.... Toney comes in with a legitimate skill, just like other guys that come from just wrestling backgrounds or BJJ, etc ect Most fighters do start with one skill set and then evolve into mixed martial artists. With that being said, its a little late in life for Toney to ever become a true mma fighter, but I say let the man test his skill.
Now with all that aside, the only thing that is actually turning it into a freak show is James Toney's mouth!! Although, sometimes the truth shines thru and he has said before that he truly respects mma and that these guys work hard etc etc, so the whole boxer vs mma is just a promotional showing. I think he actually respects and wants to be a part of the sport, but as long as he is opening his mouth and allowing words to come out he will never be taken seriously.
Nvm, I just now saw the video of Ariel Helwani interviewing Toney and I take it back... James Toney is a moron. I already knew that to some degree but now he is a disrespectful moron.... Its one thing to be a moron, but its another to be a moron that thinks he is smart.
Since Toney is facing Couture and the fight is looking like boxing vs MMA affair I would say its a bit of a freakshow.
If Mike Tyson was fighting Couture and he was on the main card that would be considered a freakshow.
I see this more like a science experiment than a freak show. All questions will be answered and the subject for debate will be put to rest. We have seasoned vets both with a legacy and with flaws. Although it will never be an even match, I think that this is gonna be as balanced as it will ever get when lining up an mma fighter against a boxer. Good luck to both fighters. The world will be awaiting the outcome!
I dont consider it a freak show
I think of it as Boxing vs MMA w/ MMA Rules
I voted yes but i just think its more of an execution than a freakshow. Tony may be comin into the ufc with some reasonable skill.....but when its boxing..............and NOTHING ELSE then i dont see him makin a big enough jump in ability to take on anyone in the mma world. The second he gets hit with a leg kick or gets takin down and put in a bad position he is not gunna kno what to do and all hes gunna do is try to survive. Dana just wants to make an example out of tony thats how i see it cause the man dont like him already and when ur a dumbass who thinks hes the next big thing.....no one will take u seriously.
this is going to be a pretty crazy fight
I just want to see Toney's head busted apart
Dana made it happen so it's not a freak show.
i agree Toney is a world champ randy won't wanna trade shot with him. The problem is Toney as a man not a fighter his attitude and personality stinks that what makes it seem like a freak show he's ignorant and it's hard to understand him it. BUT if a kick boxer switched to mma and was unknown the term freak show wouldn't even get brought up.
Its a crazy freak show but it will prove tht no boxer can fight in MMA
What if toney does win this fight...................
I don't see it as a freak show, even though Toney is trying to make it one all by himself. He simply is not giving MMA the respect it deserves, and believes he can easily compete in MMA and do very well. The UFC is offering a challenge to Toney to come in from a different sport as a dominant boxer and try to compete with MMA's best fighters, much as they did with Kimbo coming from a street fighting background. It's that simple. Dana likes to issue challenges to athletes from any and all walks of life who truly believe they can compete in the UFC, because he firmly believes that MMA is the number one hand to hand combat sport in the world, just like so many of us do. "If you think you are better, show me" is what he is telling him.
i dont think so, im actually lookin forward to seein it