CompuStrike and FightMetric: Martin Kampmann Won

Kampmann won, the result is a travesty.

Whop uses words like "travesty"

I gave it to Sanchez based on pure heart and aggression. You can argue he won the last two rounds....

i hate the way aggression is a factor it should be nothing, pride point scoring system is a more fair reflection whats the point in moving forwards and whirlwinding if every punch misse meanwhile getting your face mashed to rocky dennis esk?



there needs to be some changes in this sport a total revamp. get rid of standing fighters up so early if there on the floor (unless its total obvious they dont plan on doing nothing( sort the refereeing the judging and get rid of this unspoken rule where you need to finish every figh t look at dominick cruz hes amazing to watch but i cant see him finishing guys but id watch him every week)



Get rid of these sayings like "to the hardcore fans" sort the no1 contender situation out fairly not to whom the ufc feels they can cash cow the most money out of....



and finally but theres nothing you can do as of yet but in time there will be camps for one single person only not teams like jacksons mma but have people fight eachother not saying no cause yous train in the facillity together.



Sorry about the rant lowkick.com folk it was totaly off the cuff didnt mean to go on.... Ive been Riddle-jitsu yous have been great goodnight everybody....

technicality kampmann aggresiveness diego , it seems hard to decide but compustrikes never lie but the fight was outstanding

Yup there you have it. Kampmann won, aggressiveness is not a criteria to get points.

@jesper, but aggresiveness does relate to ring control in a way. Thats the only thing that i think lost kampman the fight. He sat back a bit too much and although he landed more and cleaner and also stopped nearly all the take downs, diego was at least still attempting those take downs or going for the attacks and im think thats al the judges must havve gone for, i believe that the defensiveness of his fighting cost him.

But y would Diego get points for going for a takedown or something if he hardly ever got it. In that scenerio i say any octagon control points should go to kampmann. u dnt always need to be going at 200 mph to establish control.

No it doesn't. It's not in the rules. Octagon control relates to grappling. Geez read the rules folks.

VIII. JUDGES



A. No judge will have a financial interest in any fighter he judges.



B. No judge will be a manager/trainer of any fighter he judges.



C. In a bout goes to it's full time limit, the outcome will be decided by a majority decision of

three, (3), MMAC judges.



D. A judge is accredited, sanctioned and selected based upon his character, experience, stature in the MMA world, knowledge of MMA systems and impartiality.



E. Judging Criteria

1. Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:

-Clean Strikes

-Effective Grappling

-Octagon Control

-Effective Aggressiveness



F. Clean Strikes

1. The fighter who is landing both effective and efficient clean strikes.

2. There are two ways of measuring strikes:

-the total number of clean strikes landed (more efficient)

-the total number of heavy strikes landed (more effective)



G. The heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than total number landed.

1. If the striking power between the fighters was equal, then the total number landed would be used as the criteria.

2. The total number of strikes landed, should be of sufficient quantity favoring a fighter, to earn a winning round.



H. Strikes thrown from the top position of the guard, are generally heavier and more effective than those thrown from the back.

1. Thus a Judge shall recognize that effective strikes thrown from the top guard position are of "higher quality", than thrown from the bottom.

2. The Judge shall recognize that this is not always the case.

However, the vast majority of fighters prefer the top guard position to strike from. This is a strong indication of positional dominance for striking.



I. Effective Grappling

1. The Judge shall recognize the value of both the clean takedown and active guard position.

2. The Judge shall recognize that a fighter who is able to cleanly takedown his opponent, is effectively grappling.

3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.

4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling.

5. A Judge shall recognize that the guard position alone shall be scored neutral or even, if none of the preceding situations were met.(items 2-4)

6. A Judge shall recognize that if the fighters remain in guard the majority of a round with neither fighter having an edge in clean striking or effective grappling, (items 2-4), the fighter who scored the clean takedown deserves the round.

7. A clean reversal is equal to a clean takedown in effective grappling



J. Octagon Control

1. The fighter who is dictating the pace, place and position of the fight.

2. A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.

3. A grappler who can takedown an effective standing striker to ground fight is octagon control.

4. The fighter on the ground who creates submission, mount or clean striking opportunities



K. Effective Aggressiveness

1. This simply means who is moving forward and finding success.(scoring)

2. Throwing a strike moving backwards is not as effective as a strike thrown moving forward.

3. Throwing strikes and not landing is not effective aggressiveness.

4. Moving forward and getting struck is not effective aggressiveness.

5. Shooting takedowns and getting countered and fended off is not effective aggressiveness.



L. Criteria Evaluation

1. Each judge is to evaluate which fighter was most effective. Thus striking and grappling skills are top priority.

2. Evaluating the criteria requires the use of a sliding scale. Fights can remain standing or grounded. Judges shall recognize that it isn't how long the fighters are standing or grounded, as to the scoring the fighters achieve ,while in those positions.

3. If 90% of the round is grounded one fighter on top, then:

-effective grappling is weighed first.

-clean striking is weighed next. If clean strikes scored in the round, the Judge shall factor it

in. Clean Striking can outweigh Effective Grappling while the fighters are grounded.

-octagon control is next (pace, place & position)



4. The same rational holds true if 90% of the round were standing. Thus:

-clean striking would be weighed first (fighter most effective)

-clean grappling second (any takedowns or effective clinching)

-octagon control which fighter maintained better position? Which fighter created the situations

that led to effective strikes?



5. If a round was 50% standing and 50% on the ground, then:

-clean striking and effective grappling are weighed more equally.

-octagon control would be factored next



6. In all three hypothetical situations, effective aggressiveness is factored in last. It is the

criteria of least importance. Since the definition calls for moving forward and scoring, it is

imperative for the Judges to look at the scoring first.



7. Thus for all Judges scoring UFC fights, the prioritized order of evaluating criteria is:

-clean strikes and effective grappling are weighed first.

-octagon control

-effective aggressiveness



M. Domination Criteria

1. A Judge may determine that a fighter dominated his opponent in a round. This can lead to a two point or more difference on a Judge's scorecard.

2. The definition of a dominating round is a fighter's ability to effectively strike, grapple and

control his opponent.

3. A Judge may determine a round was dominating if a fighter was adversely affected by one of the following:

-knocked down from standing position by clean strike

-by submission attempt

-from a throw

-from clean strikes either standing or grounded.



N. Judge's Scorecard Procedures

After each round:

1. each Judge will determine and record a score each round

2. a MMAC official will collect the scorecard after each round

3. the MMAC official will track and add each Judges score by round

4. If the fight goes the time limit, the MMAC official will add each Judge's scorecard and double check total

5. the fighter with the greater number of points wins the fight on each Judges scorecard

6. the fighter who won on the majority of the Judges Scorecards, wins the fight

7. the MMAC official will hand the decision to the PA announcer



O. Types of Judge's Decisions

1. If all three scorecards agree Unanimous

2. If two of three scorecards agree Split

3. Two scorecards agree and one draw Majority

4. two scorecards agree on draw Draw

5. all scorecards different Draw



IX SCORING SYSTEM



A. The MMAC and UFC have adopted a 10 point must system.

The Judge will use the criteria to determine a winner each round. The three step procedure per round is as follows:

-determine winner of round (can be draw)

-determine if winner dominated round

-fouls then factored in (subtract one point per foul from fighter)



B. Draws are again acceptable in MMAC events



C. Point Totals

1. two fighters who draw are given a score of 10-10

2. the fighter who wins a round is given a score of 10-9

3.The fighter who dominates a round is given a score of 10-8

(a score of 10-7 is possible for a dominant round)

4.For each foul a fighter commits, a point is subtracted. This deduction can change a winning round to a draw. 9-9

longest post ever i think

Cant be bothered even reading this best seller!

It's a copy of te actual rules. I guess it s better to make them up to prop up your favorite fighter.

Sorry. Just too much speculation on what the rules are. Most people prob never read them

Well, his name is after the "posted by" phrase.

Does anyone else think Compustrike should be a factor in the official scoring of matches. Maybe on use 2 judges and let computer judge the 3rd card. Idk exactly how it would work but Id wait an extra 5 mins to get better judging. Im getting tried of BS decision.

how does compustrike or fightmetric tell who won that fight? You cant compare kampmanns strikes to the bombs diego was throwing..

..

@faces do not always tell the story either go. Im not saying diego won or didnt but just saying look at the face is stupid. Everyone can mark up different. How about penn vs gsp 1. gsp a real mess and went to hospital, penn was fine but gsp won the fight. I think it was cleary rd1 kamp man, rd 3 diego and the other rd was very tight. It was a tough fight to call.

GSp was not a real mess. He had a thumb in the eye off BJ if you recall and that affected his eye but the rest of his face was untouched compared to most fighters after a fight.

Sanchez was bloody but he was never rocked. Kampmann was visibly wobbly a number of times. Kampmann clearly took more internal damage.

this shit does not tell the whole story so u guys should stop referring to this and saying who won, how about the aggressiveness of diego or the octagon control just accept it RD1 def kampmann 2 and 3 are diegos

I couldn't agree more .. wether you people accept it or not, Diego always came forward and held the centre of the octagon the majority of the fight. round 1 was all Kampmann but round 2 and 3 was Diegos due to octagon control and his flurry of strikes which backed Kampmann up against the octagon. Not to mention the takedown in the 3rd. Close fight ... but I agree with the decision.

Judging Criteria

Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:



-Clean Strikes

-Effective Grappling

-Octagon Control

-Effective Aggressiveness





... so just to clear up things guys, aggressiveness and Octagon control are part of the judges scoring decisions. I noticed some people said they weren't.

I hear ya edub, but wouldnt you call pushing Kampmann backwards into the cage wall and landing a flurry of punches effective aggression?

You mean effective like the couple of times Kampmann was rocked versus the fact that Diego never was?

a) Countering a grappler's attempt at takedown to remain standing and legally striking effectively;

b) Taking down an opponent to force a ground fight;

c) Creating threatening submission attempts pass the guard to achieve mount, while on the ground;

d) Creating striking opportunities, while on the ground.

That is the definition of octagon control and Kappman won that too

Part of octagon control is dictating the pace of the fight and where it takes place. Diego controlled the pace of the fight in rds 2 and 3.

Only when it's effective. And it's gets voided by 14 stuffs on takedown defense. If the fight stays standing the largest judgement is on clean striking. Those are the rules. Pretty obvious who the cleaner striker is. Effective aggression is also voided when you are struck with jabs. That is also in the rules.

@slick. thats exactly how i see it, you just cant look at the face. You have to take all the point scoring things into contention and diego was controlling the ring, more aggresive and going for takedowns and did land 1. Kampman has had chances aginst diego and shies to definitely win but he seems to be lacking the finish.

should say shields!

Aggression is not part of the unified rules



Octogon control is defined by the unified rules as follows.

a) Countering a grappler's attempt at takedown to remain standing and legally striking effectively;

b) Taking down an opponent to force a ground fight;

c) Creating threatening submission attempts pass the guard to achieve mount, while on the ground;

d) Creating striking opportunities, while on the ground.



So you are all just making stuff up to defend a point of view that is wrong.

@movescamp. Well looking at those rules then kampman should have been so far ahead on points due to point (a) , but it seems that fighters actually get scored on attempting the take downs and pushing the pace because it as seen as being the aggresive guy, octagon control. And to be fair most lowkick fans have been annoyed with a fight over the last 6 months due to the scoring situation but nobody has come up with a great solution.

Pushing the pace only counts web effective. It is not when you get punched inthe face for doing it. Also stuffing takedowns counts as octagon control. So stuffing 14 takedown is certainly huge. It only counts when you actually effectively take the person down or land punches when moving forward. I posted the actual rules given to the judges which people are weaking because it negates these speculative arguments. I am starting to think the fights are being fixed if Dana can't get to the fighters the judges do it.

I think that the takedown in the 3rd round was the deciding factor of the fight and that's just not fair because Sanchez didn't do any damage on that. Takedowns are so overraited, i think that the judges shouldn't count them in mma, its awarding enough that you have the better position. If you are counting the takedowns then you should be counting takedown defenses as well.

it was a takedown in which he landed in a dominant position. besides he still got that round and round 2 i gave it to sanchez too

Sanchez won the Fight for sure, Kampmann most of the striking comes from the 1st Round, In the second round Diego rocked him Twice and 3rd Round was the takedown . If u see all the three rounds Diego is the winner.

If the UFC thought Compustrike or FightMetric were valid enough, then they would use the stats instead of real judges. Unfortunately these programs do not compute heart, aggressiveness, and overall determination to win a fight, which is why they gave it to Sanchez. Not to mention that he did get a takedown finally, and defending takedowns is a neutral move. I had Kampmann winning the first, Sanchez the second, and the third a toss up. It is a shame that fights have to end up this way, but it is becoming far more common. It's the fighter's responsibility to accept the outcome if they leave it in the judge's hands, no-one elses.

that last sentence is ridiculous. what do you want them to fight to the death..? decisions are necessary and a fighter should be able to leave it to the judges because the reason they are judges is because they were hired to make calls normal people could not. CLEARLY thats not the case with the Atheltic Comissions and the UFC, the judges are incompitant and moronic. sanchez got technically picked apart, this is a MMA fight you get points for landing strikes not moving forward and getting picked apart. The decision was awful and the fact that your trying to justify it is even worse

Agreed 100% if it hadn't been the athletic commissioned judges who are hired to watch the fight and decide who wins at the end, they might have had actual MMA fan's or people who understand the sport to judge. Leaving it in the judges hands has become a terrible thing as of the recent years (which it should not be) and decisions like this fight built up on that saying "Never leave it in the hands of the judges" and you hear that time and time again like its a monster waiting on the other side of the door because no one agree's with the judging when it should be corrected.

Soft decision from the judges. Kampmann counter-struck every time Sanchez waded in with his hyper aggressive style that looks effective but really isn't. Simplest way to dcide who won? Whose face looked worse?

Kampmann won that fight, but Diego won the contest. Diego's striking was obviously subpar to Kampmann's. What was Diego's takedown rate? 1 for 11 or something like that? Kampmann controlled the fight and they fought where Kampmann wanted to. Diego took him down once. ONCE! No way should Diego have won that fight.

1 for 15

..that compustrike is for geeks not real fighters. I scored this fight 29-28 Sanchez. Still I think the judges are getting better then they were. Not saying that I know better...

Real fighters can beat the **** out of pussies like you

Then what matters more than the statistics, in your opinion?

The faight was close. I thought Kampmann took round 1 and I gave rounds 2 and 3 to Sanchez. Compustrike is garbage.

Fight.

CompuStrike tally's the fight as a WHOLE, when MMA is judged by Rounds. Basically if you win 2 rounds out of 3 you win the fight it doesnt matter how much the loser landed more then you if majority of it was in the ONE round you lost

Possibly but he also got rocked twice, taken down and allowed Diego to dictate the pace of the fight.

Sorry for the longest post ever up there. I just wanted to get everyone on the same page with whatthe rules actually are. And by them there is no way Diego won. The first most criteria is clean striking when the fight is standing. Second octagon control ( which by stuffing 14 takedowns Kappman also won) third EFFECTIVE aggression. Which requires clean strikes. Being hit while moving forward cancels the aggression. That is by definition.

As much as I love televised MMA fights, I always get more excited for a streetfight, barfight or schoolyard fight (been a lotta years for this one). For that reason, I always dream about sanctioned fights being judged as closely as possible to a real fight, while also keeping the major safety precautions/rules in place that will allow MMA to continue progressing toward mainstream. I don't know all the good reasons why fights are formatted and judged the way they are, so I'm not arguing for a change, I'm just taking a survey.



Proposed Rules:



1) ALL FIGHTS, TITLE OR OTHERWISE, CONSIST OF ONE 25-MINUTE ROUND. You better come with good conditioning because there's no resting in real fights and no being saved by the bell.



2) NO SUCH THING AS LOW BLOWS. Wear the biggest strongest lead-filled cup you can find. The downside is mobility will be more restricted but the upside is to take away the ability to fake a low blow and also the ability to cheat with a low blow.



3) EYE POKES. I don't know how to get around this. Helmets or goggles won't work. Maybe rules about eye pokes need to stay in place.



4) STRIKES TO BACK OF HEAD. No answer for this, needs to still be controlled by the ref and judges.



4) NO STANDUPS OR RESTARTS. No such thing in a real fight. The risk is that we get some boring fights but the more real the better. Figure out how to stand up or continue getting beaten on. Figure out how to get out of the clinch, or continue getting tied up and tired out.



5) GRABBING THE SHORTS, GRABBING THE CAGE. No warnings or penalties….just scrap.



6) NO EARLY STOPPAGES. These are professional athletes, let them tap or continue until they’re clearly lights out or something breaks. As a safety measure, the corner can throw in the towel.



7) KNEES AND ELBOWS. All knees and all elbows all the time so be ready. If a 12-6 elbow damages you, then tap. If a knee to the head on the ground damages you, then tap.



8) CUTS. I don’t know what to do about this. I guess this needs to be left up to the doctor. On one hand I want to say just keep fighting, but it might not be fair for the guy who is not cut to have to be lathered up in the other guy’s blood.



9) SMALL JOINT MANIPULATION. Bring it on.





Survey:



A) Would you support these rules?



-Yes

-No



B) If you wouldn’t support them, why not?



-Too boring?

-Too dangerous?

-Risk of regulatory agencies shutting down fights as barbaric?

-Other?



C) Partial acceptance of these rules but with changes.



-Which rules would you accept?

-Which rules would you change?

I could get behind a single round IF it was ten - fifteen minutes (a real fight doesn't last even that long), no stand ups and allowing grabing the fence/shorts. Everything else; NO.

ICP,



Good point. I guess what I'm thinking but didn't articulate is that without standups, restarts and breaks between rounds, most fights would be stopped one way or another before they ever got to 25-minutes. But for those that didn't end up with a stoppage, programming won't allow them to go forever so might as well cap it at current championship rounds.

lol'ing at all the "they gave it to diego for his heart and determination" wtf..



oh thats what the judges are looking for now is it? a positive attitude?

If coming forward swinging wildly and missing with most of your shots is better than sound technical boxing and beating someones face to a pulp while avoiding your own face becoming a pulp, fair enough Sanchez won that fight. My opinion though is Kampmann clearly won round 2 as he was by far the better fighter staying patient and picking Sanchez apart as he kept coming forward swinging wildly.



Anyone who thinks Sanchez won round 2 or that fight needs to remember what they are actually doing in the UFC - FIGHTING you fools. A better fighter damages his opponent more than the damage he receives. The UFC judging criteria does not support this logic, as you can effectively land no shots whatsoever and get hit many times but still get awarded the fight for a bit of hugging and coming forward throwing wildly.



Kampmann been robbed twice, I suggest he go to strikeforce where he will probably get a better chance of good judges. The ones the UFC keep getting are pure w**k.

yes kampmann did just a little bit more to secure the victory, Kampmann's mma career is playing out a bit just like Lyoto vs Shgun 1