Chael Sonnen issued a new suspension by the CSAC

Well i dont like the guy but not granting him a license partly based on the whole real estate issue seems silly to me.

This is bullshit, you found cause to suspend him with his testimony initially, which im fine with that being punished, but to suspend him again for that initial trial which he already served the time for, and paid fines. That should be over and done with. Now his Federal legal troubles are an issue with the government which he has resolved with the government, the gov is satisified with the end result. It is bullshit, now the new CSAC suspension will be upheld by Nevada's athletic commission which was the last hurdle in him returning to action

Dang, Anderson Silva is paying off all the right people

I'm a huge A.S. fan, but if he was doping up 2 win but still gets choked out, then get convicted of breaking the law, I would be embarrassed 2 defend him. Instead of taking up for this Dump Truck, all 6 of you should shut up & let him speak for himself.

Either that or Karma is truly a bitch!

This doesn't surprise me that much, Chael was talking about him needing to meet with the Nevada commission on the mma hour a few weeks back, the way he presented it (which granted should never be taken at face value) was they were upset because he claimed that he had a conversation with the director and was told his hormone replacement was approved when it was really his manager (former now I believe). At least according to that interview he gave that's more of the issue than the fraud because they have no business to take that into account at all, the only real setback is that this meeting was supposed to happen a while ago but got postponed for whatever reason.

@ MMAW.



I agree and I appreciate that while you're not a fan, you're reasonable about it.

IT IS SILLY. In reading the posts below it seems like Rusted Redeemer has pretty much summed up what’s going on. Combative sports and sports in general have a history of convicted athletes still able to compete. A good case study to do would be one on Muhammad Ali, for anyone interested in how past offenses and how they’ve been handled. Chael did wrong and paid $10,000 and lost his realtors license. His career as a fighter shouldn’t be affected. If it is then I suppose Vick should be let go from the NFL. If thats not a double standard I don’t know what is. People are just fueling arguments over hatred for Chael. Take a look at the wide world of sports and tell me Chael is the prominent example of what a bad person is...NOT BY A LONG SHOT! Let the boy fight.

The real estate fraud conviction and the lying to the commission shows he is a cheater at heart. The original suspension was for cheating with steroids. This one is for showing that he is still a cheater at heart. He should be banned for life. I guarantee he is training with steroids right now. All fighters who get caught with steroids should be banned for life. Then, and only then, will we see fair fights.

Chael has committed far greater crimes than Paul Daley in real terms yet few are complaining about daley being banned from the UFC.



I don't know every last detail of this case, nor do we fans. We only get fed tit bits on sites such as lowkick and co. and I personally thought he should have had a far stronger sentence when found to be cheating and lying about substance abuse. there is no place for it in the sport. Olympic atheletes can sometimes be banned for life in order to have a strong deterrent and if Chael gets a long suspension for cheating and then consequently lying to cover up his story he deserves all he gets IMO.



Regarding the fraud issue, here in England many companies can and will sack you for so much as voicing an opinion nevermind being a criminal - something I very much disagree with so I understand why it may be a factor in determining another suspension for Sonnen, though I do not approve of that being so as I think work and private life should not be mixed in this way.

@51jd51

Yeah, I'm guessing the Keizer comments are the real problem, not the fraud. . . I just hope it all gets resolved, in the end.



Chael screwed up, and royally, but I want to see him back in the cage with a shot at redemption all the same.

Yes, but those issues with Kizer were on the agenda to be discussed with Nevada when they met this month, but that meeting isn't happening anymore. This new suspension is in California, not Nevada. So, while Kizer and the NSAC chose to honor the CSAC's suspension, as they typically do in every case, Kizer himself had nothing to do with implementing the new suspension.

@Joey Santosus



That may be true but these do seem like they're linked as the potential false testimony has implications in both states (keep in mind I'm half talking through my ass here and you probably know more details than me). Either way Sonnen wasn't going to be fighting until this got sorted out and t really just see this as making that more official than it was before.

The man committed fraud. He ruined people's lives. He served no real prison time.



Chael should be condemned from fighting ever again.

Well, lets be honest here. If he did provide false testimony in his first hearing, he deserves to be suspended again.

little kids with too much authority

refering to the csac

Well the problem is not that he didn't serve the sentence but the y now believe he lied and that changes things. Sounds fair to me. I don't think it's the only area he lied about either in this last year of legal issues.

Well the problem is not that he didn't serve the sentence but the y now believe he lied and that changes things. Sounds fair to me. I don't think it's the only area he lied about either in this last year of legal issues.

it should of been timed served since they suspended him anyways though.

Wasnt the suspension for the original issues though?



If he gave false testimony that would warrant a 2nd hearing.

@doomsday he was in the wrong with the fraud, he was a middle man that didnt recieve any of the money that was taken. The law was content with his punishment they gave him. This should have nothing to do with his fighting career, they are not related.

why do you hate chael sonnen

@doomsday.



Chael ruined who's life, exactly?



Who?



. . .



Can you name even ONE person who's life was even a little bit HURT over Chael's transgressions?

No. You can't.



Seriously, the fraud thing was a business endeavor. He wasn't sued by anyone; he never actually committed a civil offense against anyone, and no one ever turned him in for any wrongdoing (he turned himself in.)



No one is out there crying about the money laundering thing; it was a matter between Chael, his business partners, and the government, and Chael/Chael's partners just FUBARed the deal.



His partners and customers didn't sue him, and he and his business partners allegedly turned the issue over to the government themselves. I'd imagine that's why he was never arrested.



He paid for his crimes with his realtor's license, 10,000 dollars, and 2 years probation. If that's not enough for a victimless white-collar crime, I don't know what more you want. We're not talking about Bernie Madoff crimes here where someone actually got hurt or even had a complaint that we know of.



Your statement is nothing more than pure speculation and idiocy.



Think before you speak, dummy.

Wtf are you talking about?

Wow, the irony. I'm the 'dummy' and yet you're claiming Sonnen's actions did not hurt a single person in the process. Victimless crime my ass.



Seriously, are you 15 years of age? Maybe you're mentally challenged. Do you know anything about fraud? Or the law for that matter. No, you don't.



Due to Sonnen 'cooperating' with officials, no names will be released.



Chael is selling out all of his 'business' partners to save his own ass. What you've read is based on Sonnen's account of what happened you idiotic swine. His former partners are telling a different story about Sonnen's participation.



BUT it is remarkable that a two bit whack job like yourself is defending a liar, thief, stool pigeon, etc for your entertainment purposes.

Yes, you are the dummy.



Outside of his business partners that were busted ON THEIR OWN ACCORDS for crimes outside of this issue, as well as this case, who did he hurt? So what if he ratted them out? Apparently THEY are the victims, now, according to you?



Name the countless innocents Sonnen's actions hurt.

I challenge you.



Who is suing Sonnen for his transgressions?

Who HAS sued him for them?



NO ONE. No one even tried.



Yes, I do happen to know quite a bit about fraud and money laundering. Management and Entrepreneurship major, so I kinda have to know all about it, about how business fraud works and how NOT to run business. . . or else it's MY ass, eventually.



Do you care about Sonnen's business partners? Also, that is UNRELATED to the crime at hand.



So he turned them over for all their other indescretions. Would you rather have them doing more damage elsewhere, since they were -in fact- committing a great deal more fraud than Sonnen was even accused of?



One of them was busted for 900,000 dollars worth of fraud. Sonnen was only even ACCUSED of 69,000, and that was just this one deal.



Sonnen's cooperation has nothing to do with it, if he had severely harmed someone he would be embroiled in a legal dispute with them in a CIVIL case. Or he would have been arrested.

Neither has happened.



So what does that tell you about who he "hurt"? Or whose "lives he ruined"?



Saying he ruined lives without backing it up is pure idiocy, and you have NOTHING else to back up anything you've said.



You just have a personal vendetta against Sonnen, and that's fine. . . Have a personal vendetta against him all you want. I don't really give a damn.

Just don't expect to spew any bullshit you damn well please and not have to at least be challenged on it.



Because that's what everything -so far- you've said has been.

Pure. Speculative. Unsupported. Idiotic. Bull$hit.

Wtf are you talking about x2

It's not much worth arguing with Rusted Redeemer over Sonnen... He's very bias when it comes to him. I've seen him go as far as saying Sonnen never made any racist comments.... and all it takes is a quick search to prove that one wrong lol.

Man I would hate to be your friend when the sh*t hit the fan for something. Oh he was only accused? Why was he given special treatment in order to rat then? If they had nothing on him he would have told them where to go. You are a right fighter only and most certainly not argueing a sensible or even reasonable side to Chaels situation. You are emotionally far too attached to Sonnen it may be becoming a condition.

I don't believe you have ever seen me make that case, because I have never yet made it (to my recollection.)



Not to say I WOULDN'T make that case, simply that I haven't. But since you brought it up, maybe I will.



The fact that he said Soares should go pray to his demon-god effigy or something like that? That's racist?



Jesus. You guys don't find humor in much, do you.

What if soares is Catholic?

Sonnen could be a closet-atheist who hates Catholics.



Would that comment still be racist then?



Why does it have to be a racist thing with you guys, straight off the bat?

For all we know, it's an anti-Catholic message, after all, a lot of Brazilians are Catholics, too.



What does it matter? If he had said "N-word this and N-word that" then yes, you could say he made racist remarks. Even if he said all Brazilians are swine or something, you could make it (in a nationalistic sense.)



You just like to revert to racism because its easier to deal with a "racist" and dismiss them, rather than deal with what a person is really saying. . . or in Sonnen's case, really joking about.



Does anyone here think Ed Soares actually has a demon-god effigy he prays to?



I'm guessing Chael doesn't either, but based on the amount of humorous bullshit that comes out of Chael's mouth, you'd think you'd eventually realize he's either A) completely batshit crazy or B) being humorous.



He's also gone so far as to say that he has "Never lost a single fight. . . never lost a single round of a single fight."



Think he really thinks that literally, too?



You go read the Huffington Post all you want, and believe whatever bilge you desire. I'm not changing your mind, and you're not changing mine.

You say "He ruined whos lives"????



He committed mortgage fraud, which was the leading culprit that led to the mortgage crisis and flushed our economy down the toilet!



To say its a "victimless crime" is insane. You should take some of your own advice and think before you speak. People doing the crimes like his hurt nearly everyone in America.

Yeah because we can't name the people who were not named there was no one hurt by Chaels actions. Seriously, you will wake up one day and be like ''Daddy, you said you never took steroids for gain and you lied!''

it is fraudsters worldwide of Sonnen's cloth that are responsible for the economic crisis. It isn't all sonnens fault of course, but he is a cog in a very neast wheel that our children now have to pay for.

BTW, he was the Agent of the fraud. Just because he did not pay himself the fraudulent money does not mean "did not get any money out of it".



As an agent he gets money for the SALE itself. So he DID get money out of it.

Yes, in theory, he hurt everyone in America with his actions.



His 69,000 dollars was absolutely fraud against every red,white,and blue loving American citizen.



Bernie Madoff allegedly ran a 50 BILLION dollar fraudulent scheme.

Let's put things into perspective a bit, shall we?



I'm not saying what Sonnen did was right, I'm saying that even if it WAS as malicious as every AS-loving jerkwad on here seems to think it was (and they COULD be right) it's a crime that had no specific victim, the damage was done, according to the Federal Government he paid sufficiently for his crime.



What more do you want?



Shall we burn him an effigy?

Crucify him?

Stone him to death?



No. Just ruin his career and something that he's worked a lot longer on over a mistake.

Hell, let's say he DID flat-out steal it. Cold-blooded.

You feeling the sting in your wallet, Spyridon?



Thought not.



So since the Federal Government has deemed that he paid for it, why does Sonnen not get another chance?

Why does Mike Vick get another chance, but not Sonnen?

I think what Vick did was far more cold-blooded and heinous than anything Sonnen dreamed of, but you're ready to crucify him simply because you don't like him.



Thankfully you're not the head of the justice system.



. . . And for the record, I'm GLAD that Vick is getting another shot. He seems to me like he's a genuinely changed man from who he was.



Redemption's a powerful thing. Sonnen deserves a chance at it.

oh come on the leading reason for the economic downfall was people took loans they couldnt afford and in some cases the buyer conspired with realt estate companies and the escrow company to commit mortgage fraud. although it was very rare because you need three different parties to all be on the deal the real estate agent escrow company and the buyer.

He has committed acts of Money Laundering and Mortgage Fraud. He's used performance enhancement drugs. In addition, he has escaped various other crimes during his 'office' days (in which he was forced to resign) thanks to extortion.



The man doesn't deserve another shot. The man deserves a prison cell.

Hello Mr Redeemer,



You use some clever language patterns in order to make your point. Personal accountability is what the Nazis tried to argue against in Nuremberg. Acccording to you, Sonnens crime should be viewed in comparison to Bernie and this makes it less consequential.



Using the law of comparison to create an argument does not make you right. In fact it goes against what you hope to achieve, you want to be right and in doing so delete any information to the contrary. This prevents you from finding the truth.



If I used an identity frame with you now, which I won't, that would make you insane because as you know, insane people simply distort evidence to fit their own limited frame.



Your level of argumentation is limited by your ego and thats a shame because you could achieve far more with honesty than deceit, couldn't you?



Good luck in your future decisions,

Odesa

And you deserve a straight jacket, but you don't see me trying to have you put in one.

Also, you didn't respond to my query:



Why does Vick/Phelps/Irving get another shot, but Sonnen does not?



Why do they get to resume their lives, having paid whatever price they had to pay for their sins, but Sonnen doesn't get the same luxury?

None of them should get away lightly. All should pay a severe price.

The question about Vicks and Phelps you ask implies that you either know the answer or are in some way able to judge the basis of my answer against your own moral framework.



Neither of these options is attractive and when we add this to your stated inability to field conversation then it seems somewhat distatestful to engage in conversation with you on this point.



Open conversations require open minds.



Best,

Odesa

You are wrong. A man's mistakes and crimes are apart of him no matter what he does or where he goes.



It doesn't matter if he didn't receive any cash, he was apart of this disgusting plot. No excuses.

Are you kidding? You don't think Chael had any bonus to the scam? He probably got the sale do to it and that is getting fraudulent money.

Hi David,



Can you state categorically that he received no benefit from his actions?

- What was in it for him?

- How specifically do you know what you know?



Thanks

Odesa

@doomsday



There's this whole thing about paying for your crimes.

We have that in our justice system.



Ask Mike Vick.



You would apparently have it that if someone gets a speeding ticket, they shouldn't be allowed to drive again.

After all, "a man's crimes are a part of him" right?



Nobody EVER makes mistakes and then changes and deserves a second chance, huh?



You have no idea what "disgusting plot" even took place, either.

Tell me, what NEFARIOUS plot was Chael involved in?

Who'd he screw over?

The only answer you're going to be able to give is "Money Laundering" which can be anything from Bernie Madoff down to a $100 under-the-rug-business-deal.

Good stuff Rusted Redeemer. Doomsday is just a Sonnen hater with nothing to back up what he says..... The fraud hurt nobody, it was just against the law, and he paid the fine and has probation. Thats as far as it should go. But getting in the way of his MMA career is ridiculous.

Thanks. I gotta stick up for my boy.



If he had ACTUALLY ruined someone's life, that would be different.

But his crime is a white-collar, semi-victimless crime.

It's like tax evasion.

Yes, there are TECHNICALLY victims, but nobody is actually personally out of money because of it.

Same thing here.



Pisses me off when people go WAY over the top with things like saying Sonnen deserves to never fight again for a crime like this, or deserves excessive prison time. Its not like he can do it again. . . he doesn't have the license to make such a deal again, anymore.



By doomsday's logic, why the hell is Mike Vick playing football?

Michael Irvin did some heinous shit in his day. he shouldn't be broadcasting.

Michael Jordan's gambling problem should have made him ineligible for the HOF, and Michael Phelps should never be able to get within 500 yards of a speedo again, because of the pot thing.



See any problems with any of this? Outside of the fact that all their names are "Michael"? (Swear to god, that was happenstance. . . they were just all good cases for my point. . .lol.)

And you're a just uneducated nut hugging fan who thinks fraud and money laundering have no victims.

No, fraud and money laundering can have victims. But in this case there were virtually no victims in the crime.... Im far more educated then you, and Rusted Redeemer has said enough for you to be the obvious moron in this debate. So good day to you sir. (Go read a book)

That's right.



You can't answer the arguments from above, so you resort to calling me a "nut hugger."



You know what? I am. I am proudly a Chael "nut hugger."



Matter of fact, I may be his biggest fan in the world, and if it turns out I am, I'll be all the more proud for it.



But you are just an angry person who isn't willing to admit that you want Sonnen to be punished severely simply because you personally hate him.



And you have no relevant response to any of the logical arguments I've presented you with, except to go back to repeating your same fallacies again and again.



Steroids. Laundering. Boo Hoo.



Cry me a river, lad.

While you're at it, grow up.

That comment was intended to Daddy, not you.



I loath him, not because of his mouth but because of what he has done and what he represents. Get that straight 'lad'.



There's no point in trying to argue with you. You've gone from stating that he hurt no one to stating he deserves redemption for his crimes.



Grow up fanboy, those who break the law should be punished equally. No one should receive special treatment.

Vick/Phelps/Irvin.



What's your answer?



How about Haynesworth? He's still playing.



No, wait, what about Mark Sanchez? He seems to have recovered quite well from allegations of sexual assault.



You're treating Sonnen by a separate standard from all these others, and you're not willing to admit it.



Go ahead, say Irvin shouldn't be broadcasting.



And I said Chael deserved a CHANCE at redemption, just like all these others.

Why do you keep bringing up Vick? And various other athletes? The topic here is Chael. And what redemption are speaking of? Sonnen never got a harsh penalty. He got a suspension, a fine and a two year sentence of probation. How was that not a slap on the wrist? Are you blind, or do you adore Sonnen that much?



If it were up to me, I would have never given redemption to Vick. Sorry, but he committed a horrid act. So did Sonnen.



Believe what you want in the end but don't dare utter the words 'victimless crime' or 'white-collar crime' for what Chael pleaded guilty to.



And please stop with redemption BS. The fact is no one in sports entertainment should receive it in under a year for actions of this magnitude.



Redemption should be given to the man who has paid for his actions, not with money or information but with his own life.

All deserve punishment. The problem with Chael is he has a lot of friends in high places and he gets significantly less punishment than your average citizen would get and I think he should get what I or you would get.

...said the individual with a Sonnen default picture.



Hilarious, you're telling me to read a book, yet you claim there were no victims. Ha! At least, take a course in economics and business law/criminology, then get back at me you buffoon.

Whether DLS has taken those classes or not, I can't attest to.



I, as a matter of fact, have.



Several different business law courses, business ethics, etc.

No criminology I'll admit, but such is life.



I've got your meaningful argument right here, but you're clearly not willing to have it. Instead, you'll just keep spewing and not responding to the real issues I've brought up.



Conveniently forgot that sports figures aren't perfect in all those other examples I brought up, did you?



People aren't perfect and neither is the world.

Crucify Sonnen's failure all you want, it won't get you anywhere in life.

Doomsday, you yourself admit that most of the details havent been released but you are acting like you are 100% sure Sonnen victimized people and was only money laundering for malicious deeds. You should listen to the tiny ounce of logic that you spew out amongst the rest of your BS and stfu about how you are 100% correct and the people that think Sonnen has paid his dues are stupid..... The man is missing out on the chance to become the UFC MW champion already....which is more punishment then being in jail for life....especially your sad insignificant life.

If you're living on a beach in the canary islands not being a champ I doubt that would be as bad as jail for life. I am 100% sure because he admitted to laundering which affects people. I am also 95% sure he cheats to win at many things.

I can tell you have no idea what you are talking about, nor have any goals or ambitions of your own. Chael promised his dead father that he was gonna be world champ. He beat up A. Silva for 23 minutes only to succumb to a triangle....He was going to get an instant rematch but his contract was frozen. Things began to look up and he was ready to get in a fight so he can fight for the title after. Now the CSAC suspends him? Sonnen is in his prime, and living knowing that some stupid mistake he did kept him from becoming MW champ is horrible....Use logic before you begin spewing your idiotic hate

Oh so because he has a sob story he needs favours. Many people have sob stories. I have no goals because I don't believe in cheating to get them right. Look at yourself you stup*d as*. You say use logic and all you are doing in your ''my daddy'' rant is showing emotion. I don't care how tough your life was if you need an example of a good guy look at Roger Huerta and what he came from. Get out of here with your pus*y sh*t and grow up to life with choices and some like your homeboy choose to cheat to win. I guess they deserve too because they had a tough situation. Give me a break and learn from real honest people how you can change your life around. Bet his dad would be proud now huh?

Doomsdays is a biased ****,

there is not enough details released to the media to know the extent of the crime, its a crime, sure

but not enough details released to make an assessment of exactly how much damage sonnen might have caused

Nyah. I second the motion. :)

His personal life or professional should not be interfere with his Fighting career , that is completed BS!

the UFC needs Sonnen!! we the fans need it , some to hate him and some to admire the true Warrior that he is!

What? Are you f**king serious?



Fans like you are the reason why these egotistical assholes think they are above the law.



What's complete BS is the way he won't serve any prison time for his crimes.

just curious do you know what he did illegally specificly , what his role was in the fraud, who benifitted from the fraud, what class felony it was or any of this info?

Unfortunately, most of the details for this crime haven't been released -- how convenient.



From what I've read, Chael committed Mortgage Fraud and Money Laundering. He conducted a financial transaction designed to hide or disguise the ownership and control of proceeds. That is all that is known.

You can find the details on the web.



If I remember correctly, long story short, he was the agent of a home sale. He had the mortgage company pay a loan for repairs (which was fradulent as there were never any repairs planned). He had the money delivered to the repair company, and he paid off the repair company who in turn paid the home buyer 60,000+.



So basically he talked the buyer in to buying the home by giving the buyer a "Bonus" of 60,000 dollars of fradulent money, which DID make Sonnen money as he was the agent making the sale.

He admitted fraud maybe? Is that a serious question?

I do know some of the details, I was asking doom, since he seemed so sure, of the facts, and how he should be punished

shity deal sonnen... your 1 of the best middle wieghts in the world ! no matter what people think ! hope you get your b.s lifted sonnen by the csac . so you can walk threw bisping make us laugh on tuf ! then get that silva shot again so you can put him on his back and beat him up again !

sonnen is getting what he deserves he cheated people out of alot of money then he told on his buddys! so now whos the fraud?? LOL payback is a b!tch!

Chael Sonnen = Middle Class version of Bernie Madoff

Doomsdayapex = Someone who doesn' t have a concept of crime scale.



69,000 VS 50 Billion. . . with a B.



It's not that these two figures aren't in the same ballpark, it's that they're NOT IN THE SAME ****ING SPORT!

Ballpark be damned.

Did you hear that citizens?



$69,000 is not as big as $50,000,000,000 -- thus, it's not really that horrendous, or devious guys *sarcasm*

doomsdayapex=biased ****

Funny, I'm biased because I want justice?



To a person who has low intellectual self defense, that is the low point of the debate.

and its just like other jobs they dont want a bunch of felons fighting for them!

Exactly, these fans are asinine.



I'm pretty sure if Sonnen stole money from their families, they wouldn't be standing up for the scumbag.



No one is above the law. Keep in mind, I'm a 100% sure that these fans, at one point or another, have insulted the system for letting criminals walk free for the right price.

I guess what goes around comes around.

"West Linn residents, and other residents throughout the Portland-Vancouver area, can rest assured knowing that federal law enforcement agencies take mortgage fraud very seriously because it played a major role in almost crippling this nation’s banking system just a few years ago," said Marcus Williams, a special agent in charge of IRS criminal investigations for the Pacific Northwest.



Money laundering carries a sentence of up to 20 years in prison and a $500,000 fine.



The scheme involved Joel Rosabal and Chadwick Amsden, employees of Crown Point Enterprises, dba Lighthouse Financial Group (Lighthouse), a mortgage brokerage service based principally in Vancouver, Washington, with operations in Oregon and elsewhere. Rosabal and Amsden submitted a materially false loan application on the buyer’s behalf to Decision One Mortgage, a subprime lending institution that is now defunct, for the purchase of residential property located at 11249 SE Rolling Hills Lane, Portland, Oregon. Sonnen acted as the realtor for the transaction. Sonnen submitted a false letter and Sales Agreement Addendum instructing the title company to pay loan proceeds to a plumbing company for repairs to the home. In fact, Sonnen knew and had negotiated with Rosabal that no repairs would be performed on the home and the funds designated to the plumbing company would instead be paid to the buyer as a cash incentive to purchase the home. This agreement was not disclosed to Decision One Mortgage. Once the loan was funded, the title company paid over $69,000 to the plumbing company and the plumbing company, in turn and at Sonnen’s direction, paid $65,000 to the buyer of the home.

...you're kidding, right?



That's like claiming Bush's Tax Cuts create jobs. The stupidity is beyond astronomical. I'm just flabbergasted.

How's that Obama job-growth plan working out by comparison?



Bush and Obama are both full of shit. Let's not beat around the bush on it. . . no pun intended.

He made a sale for HIMSELF by giving the buyer additional money, ensuring he would be able to make the sale.



How is that helping families? You know whos pockets the money came out of in the end... right?

Then its the persons buying the homes responsibility to not take out loans they cant afford, and not living outside their means. Sonnen did force anybody at gun point to buy a home they couldnt afford.

Why did you erase your comment? Take responsibility for your words.

chael is bieng bullied by the powers at be

I also suggest you pathetic Sonnen fans to research on why he was blackmailed out of office. A pattern emerges...

It really boggles me how so many people in this post dont think he got any money out of the fraud.



Real estate agents make money for the sales they make...

Exactly, it is beyond my understanding how people actually have the ability to defend this piece of s***.



Reemer claims to be educated on the subject at hand and yet he states there is no evidence because no one is suing Sonnen *facepalm*



I really hope the institution he attended was a community college.

Nope. State.



Also, the name's not "Reemer." There's a D and another E in there.



I didn't say there was no evidence, dolt, I said that he didn't ruin anyone's life or they'd be suing him. . . or they would have tried to sue him.



He obviously committed a crime, and I don't think anyone is foolish enough to debate that a crime DID take place and he DID have a hand in it -his intent is questionable by both sides.



It's clear that he DID commit a crime, and a crime DID clearly take place.



The debate is over why you want to crucify him for it so badly, as opposed to giving him a chance for redemption.



If you hadn't entered here all filled up to the brim with hate for him, I would never have said anything to you, but you did, so here I am. Calling you on all your bullshit every step of the way, so far.

What do you mean noone is suing him? He had a federal suit against him led by the IRS....

Civil suit. Of course the government had an issue about what he did, but I don't think it "ruined their lives" as doomsday would have you believe.



I'm talking about a civil suit that would indicate there was someone innocent or someone who cared who suffered as a result of what Sonnen did.



That was the entire point.

If doomsday wants to make the case that Sonnen "ruined people's lives" then he needs to back it up. A civil suit from a wounded party would have indicated he was right.



There isn't any, and that's for a reason.

@RR



Dude, the wounded party is the banks and federal lenders! So of course they are the ones to press charges.



There isnt any civil suit from a wounded party because it was government money. Which means every American who pays taxes is the wounded party.



How dont you understand that?

although i dont agree with chaels actions i really dont see what it has to do with his fighting carreer i see this as a the athletic commisions trying to flex their muscles i mean they let tyson fight with less bs than this and he was convicted of rape and bit a guys ear of during a fight

Didn't Tyson at least go to jail? I know it was not long enough though.

yes tyson did go to jail but thats not the point cheal has been fined and lost his licesnse in the eyes of the federal court he has been punished. why are the athlectic commisions even concerned with a non violent judicial case that has been prosecuted to the satisfaction of a federal court. it none of their concern the ped abuse is but they already had hearing and his suspension is finshed.

So you dont think the athletic commission has a right to be concerned if he provided false testimony and lied under oath in his first case ?

Yeah, thats how he avoided jail time.

I dont think some of the people here realize that mortgage companies dont lend their own money. The money comes from banks and/or federal lenders - hence the reason why theres a federal suit and not a personal one.



That's also the reason he didnt "harm" any single person directly - that money came from all of the pockets of anyone here who lives in America.

Here it is, for all you obsessive Sonnen fans:



The facts are right in front of you. He pleaded guilty to Money Laundering and Fraud. Instead of serious jail time, he got a free pass. He DID hurt people and made a profit off of it.



His former business partners are telling a different story to what Sonnen came 'clean' about. Chael was blackmailed out of public office for what is referred to as 'unethical' and 'corrupt' behavior.



Most of the details involving the case have not been made public until the case is completely closed. Nevertheless, just the fact that Sonnen pleaded guilty to serious crimes that would land a typical or average individual in prison for years and escape with a career still intact speaks volumes about our judicial system and it's doltish citizens.



While Sonnen is not currently being sued by the 'victimless' victims (which doesn't mean no cases will be brought forth after the trial), the IRS did.



There are no excuses and there are no loopholes for fans to make the crime any less significant or disturbing.



Finally, I want to thank the fellow Lowkick fans (who are supporting Sonnen) for illustrating my point perfectly about why our justice system has become a laughing stock.

I'm all for 2nd chances. Sonnens personal life should have nothing to do with his MMA career. I believe all professional athletes that require serious physical conditioning & strength for their sport/career, will & do try to push the boundaries on what they can & can't take to give them the edge they need.



I won't go on about Cycling but it's a perfect sport to compare where substance abuse or PED's are rife! Most guys are pushing the limits because like the alcohol limit for driving, there's a small bit of leeway & that might be enough.



I know I can have 1 pint of beer (Approx 5%) & drive without fear of failing a breathalyser test. That's supposed to be the limit for the average man/woman. In actual fact I have decent metabolism (probably from the years of cycling & other sports I competed in) & I know I could get away with 2 pints.... should I do it? Even 3 pints over 2 hours!!! I reckon I could process that alcohol pretty quickly. It's not wise but the fact is, a lot of men/women do it. It's against the law & generally until people get caught the try to push the limit as they feel it's ok or unfair. I'm not saying it's right but that's how it is.



I'm not a Sonnen fan. He's got some decent skills & I was impressed with his knock down on Silva & his dominant game for 4 & a half rounds. He's one tough fooker. However, he admitted to cheating & that's a bitter pill to swallow. Most athletes will deny it to the very end & protest but cave in because they make out the commission is out to get them.



They guy is a trash talker but I find him entertaining because I know everything he says is bull or a wind up. Is he good for the sport? Was Kimbo? It doesn't matter. MMA is about having the best fighters in the cage/ring against one another. It's not about analyzing fighters backgrounds or personal life & deciding weather they should be allowed to fight or get a licence.



I'm pretty sure some MMA fighters have had a bad up bringing or have made bad decisions in the past. I for one have made terrible decisions & I've paid my dues. Did I pay enough? I think so. Does everyone else agree? You can NEVER make everyone happy!



Some guys on here seem hell bent on arguing about about others being nut huggers. It's rare a guy will admit being a nut hugger & I have to respect that. But whats amazing is the time & energy people put in to arguing about who's right & wrong. It's opinions & lets be honest..... there is no right or wrong in most cases, just your opinion on it.



Am I right? Who knows. It's just my opinion. I'm in a peaceful mood today & who knows, I might be a nut hugger tomorrow :o)



PS: Silva would smash Sonnen in a rematch

Your right this has been a very funny thread! But seriously your personal life almost always has something to do with your career unless you work fast food or at a grocery store or something.

chael got what he deserves

ok guys comparing sonnen to vick is dumb vick did his time in prison and he has paid alot of money he cant own a dog! he paid his dues! sonnen is a felon now! thats on every job app have you been convicted of a felony in the past 7 years? ufc is trying to push a "good" brand not a bunch of liars and nick diaz situation "pot heads" fighting for them! why joe rogan is a different story?

Agree with you about Vick. He definitely went through the process and did his time. The NFL made sure they made a big deal of the whole situation. The Sonnen deal seemed just like a slap on the wrist. I do have to disagree with the UFC trying to push a "good" brand. It doesn't seem like they care too much about Sonnen breaking the law.

its the same in all professional sports nba,nfl,mlb your personal life does effect your job because you are representing them all the time! a nfl player gets a DUI he gets suspend for a couple games. they represent ufc all the time to so thats why his personal life effects his job! u go commit a felony and see if you keep your job!!

and the FBI is getting thir money back!! it was federal money! so if you paid taxes it came from you and barney madoff is in the pin right now so bring him up is dumb 2

Just let him fight already you ****in athletic commission pussies, **** the government

I think this is a huge shame. Now we might never know how good Chael really is.

ALL HAIL CHAEL NOW...... LMAO

Just can't seem to stay outta trouble can we sonnen

I'm not Sonnen's biggest fan to say the least (although I used to like him quite a bit, prior to the Silva debacle), but this is crap.



I don't see how his felony conviction should be of any interest or concern to CSAC and if they are going after him for "possibly" providing false testimony, then they've had 5 months to do it; and what gives with the possibly? Do they mean to tell us that five months later they don't know if he did or he didn't.



Put him back in the ring - enough is enough.

thats right he was ontop for five rounds and still couldn't win! like i said before ufc is a job commit a felony and see what your job thinks about it! all his lies are catching up with him! dont fu*k with federal money itll bite you in the A$$!

you know i dont get these poeple who hate Sonnen not wanting to see him fight i mean i dont care for bisping much really would have been a shame if i didnt get to watch dan ko him dont you want to see Sonnen get his face punched in if you hate him so much?