7 Conclusions from UFC 118: Penn vs Edgar 2
Posted on August 29, 2010, 09:33 AM by Anton GurevichUltimate Fighting Championship traveled for the first time in promotion's history to Boston, Massachusetts with a stacked UFC 118: Penn vs Edgar 2 fight card. Frankie Edgar has successfully retained his title with a dominant Unanimous Decision victory over BJ Penn, as James Toney got a wake-up call (or not) after being choked out by Randy Couture in the first round. Here's my quick thoughts about what happened at the TD Garden last night.
Pictures: UFC.COM
Dan Miller: It was great to see someone like Dan Miller getting a vital victory in the UFC. Miller lost three in a row, and was close to getting cut from the promotion. Victory over John Salter just ensures that we'll continue to see a fighter with great heart and a true Mixed Martial Artist inside the Octagon.
Joe Lauzon: Just checked some of the statistics, and it looks like Joe Lauzon received probably more bonuses than any fighter out there; Three Submission of the Night, Two Fight of the Night and one KO of the Night. Six bonuses in eight UFC fights. Joe Lauzon is definitely one of the most exciting fighters out there, but his problem is consistency. If J-Lau manages to get a streak of decent wins over top opponents in the UFC, he will be definitely in the mix for the UFC Lightweight title shot. Nate Diaz could be a great opponent in the Lightweight division.
Kenny Florian and his "unfulfilled potential": There was no secret about what will be Gray Maynard's gameplan leading up to this fight. Yet, Kenny Florian lacked the desired aggression and probably determination to go at his opponent and finish the fight. Kenny Florian is one of the most talented fighters to ever compete in MMA, and definitely deserves to wear a UFC belt around his waist. But then again, Florian struggles to rise up for the occasion in critical moments, and constantly pays the price of getting back into the end of the line. Maybe Kenny Florian should do some "Yes! Cartwheels" to rise up his confidence. Seriously: Concentrating on the mental aspects of the game might be the missing component in the recipe for creating an Unstoppable Kenny Florian.
Maynard vs Edgar fight: Many people may not agree with me, but I think that Maynard vs Edgar is currently the best option for a UFC Lighweight title fight. This is a great opportunity to see two fresh fighters, who are definitely worth their spot in the top of the UFC Lightweight division. No disrespect to BJ Penn and Kenny Florian, but it's time for other fighters to step up and get their shot at glory. Gray Maynard may be infamous for his "boring" fighting style, but he's a great challenge for a much smaller Frankie Edgar. It will be very interesting to see how Edgar (who's also a great Wrestler) will deal with Maynard's takedown attempts, and does him the same thing he did to BJ Penn. Maynard is the only fighter to defeat Edgar, so there's also a good "background intrigue" to this match-up. I don't know about you guys, but I'm looking forward for this fight.
BJ Penn: Could it be the end of BJ Penn era? I think yes. It is the end of BJ Penn as a Lightweight, that's for sure. BJ Penn promised us an exciting fight, a knockout victory, a great surprise (…) and then again, he failed to deliver for another time. The biggest surprise in the fight was the fact that it went exactly like the first one. Which means that the true reason behind BJ Penn's defeat at UFC 112 is BJ Penn himself. Not the judges, ring rust, high altitude, vaseline, Arianny Celeste, camera guy or even you – the fan. BJ Penn looked too big for a Lightweight. Too slow for a Lightweight. And too unmotivated for a title fight. To tell you the truth, I even doubt the fact that BJ Penn wants to continue fighting. But if he does, Welterweight division seems like the only option for Penn. "The Prodigy" should refresh his camp, come back in March-April and fight Matt Serra at 170.
Kimbo vs James Toney HAS to happen (not): I just wonder how much time it will take before we hear an announcement of James Toney vs Kimbo Slice Boxing Fight. In light of latest reports about Kimbo's crossover to Boxing and his connection to the "creative" Gary Shaw, the announcement of this fight is only a question of time. This, ladies and gentlemen, will be a father and mother (yeah, two in one… that's a freak show, right?) of all freak shows. And I don't blame them. This fight has a huge money potential, and a worthy sequel to the already-ridiculous MMA vs Boxing storyline.
James "Lights Out" Toney: I was telling everyone Couture vs Toney is not a freak show, but sorry guys, I have to admit it really was. As I believe in Mixed Martial Arts as a sport, in my opinion it was James Toney's right to step up and test his skills inside the Octagon. The most important questions in my opinion, are if Toney approached this fight as a Mixed Martial Artist? And if matching him up against Randy Couture was a right decision? Oh well, Dana White sincerely stated that he is willing to make an example out of James Toney, and he truly did. James Toney got what he was asking for: a quick beating by a well-rounded MMA fighter. Toney was unaware of his abilities, and what he has to do in order to survive against a fighter of Randy Couture's caliber. It's okay to call everyone out and to tell you're the best, but somehow you have to be self-critical and realistic about your chances. Toney's fight against a pure striker, Cheick Kongo maybe, would serve MMA and the UFC much better than this fight.
Comments
1- im disillusioned with penn
2- im disillusioned with florian
3- the card kinda sucked
4- no knockouts (can some1 say gerald harris?)
5- props to edgar, the bumblebee can sting...
6- i dont have a six
7- since danas into doin freakshows now, lets get ryan couture out of strikeforce nd set up a father son showdown!!
lmao I can see Dana going on about that like he's trying to convince Kos and Fitch to fight each other, "it's nothing personal, it's a competition, we just want to find out who the best Couture is"
cant agree more
Penn vs Serra at 170 would be a Dream fight!!!!!
i wish you had Joe Silva's job Anton hahaha
it is a competition, everybody since we are kids we try to compete with our friends, its just about skills and who is better not of being in the same camp and shit like that but the thing about the coutures is funny
Edgar and Maynard will happen and the same outcome will be the result. I was impressed by Frankie last night. He definitely has BJ's number. He is so quick. I don't think he will be able to beat Maynard because he doesn't have knockout power. Maynard should be able to walk through those punches and control Edgar for the win.
I think KenFlo is as good as he is going to get. I don't actually think his problem is mental. He is a great fighter. He just got out wrestled and out muscled by Maynard. Its weird but I think he is like a high level gatekeeper. There is a very short list of people he can't beat but there is a very long list of people that can't beat him.
Definitely glad Miller and Lauzon won. I've pulled for Miller in all of his losses. Those are two exciting fighters that always try to put on good shows.
James Toney.... we didn't get to see anything. Couture is one of smartest fighters in the game and of course after the fight that fact proved once again. A lot of people including me thought Randy might get caught with one but I'm sure Randy knew he wouldn't. Great job by him. I would still love to see another boxer come over to the UFC and give it a try. Maybe one who will train hard in MMA and try to learn the game more.
I don't know, Frankie has become a much better fighter since the first time they fought, I think it's very likely he can beat him the second time around. First off lets get this notion out of the way now Gray is not undefeated, he got beat by Nate Diaz on the Ultimate Fighter. He's just undefeated in professional bouts, but if there is a chink in the armor, Frankie is gonna find it because he wants to keep his title and he knows he can't go on trying to fight the same fight as the first time and expecting a different outcome.
I hope so. I picked BJ twice and Frankie proved me wrong twice. His determination and eagerness to win made me a fan. He isn't one of my favorites but I am going to root for him in the future.
1. Wrestlers will dominate the MMA world
2. Maynard vs Edgar will be one boring fight
3. Randy couture is a beast and will see another title shot before he retires
4. BJ Penn will move to Welterweight
5. After a loss at Welterweight BJ will retire
6. Kenny Florian is not ment to be champ
7. James Toney is no Roy Nelson (LOSE THE WEIGHT!)
i think Maynard vs Edgar will be surprisingly entertaining to watch. I hate Maynard and think Edgar has gotten lightyears ahead of Maynard and think Edgar will do what he did to BJ against Maynard. But this ill enjoy it instead of feeling bad like i did for BJ
Just guna throw it out there any GSP nuthuggers out there?? huh? Yea dont complain about Grays fighting style, atleast he stands up before a takedown, and im guna say that Florian got pretty busted up for getting dominated by what yall called a boring fight. Go Maynard! idc how many times Edgar beats BJ it aint guna make me like him.
Im just sayin if anyone that has watched GSPs last 2 fights and felt that they were not boring fights doesnt need to complain about Grays style of course im hating on GSP just because so many people like him for his take downs but hate Gray and Fitch for them, but i digress im just saying dont complain about his style if you like GSP he does the SAMETHING....
GSP actually goes for submission and stands with guys sometimes aswell. Its not his fault Hardys arms are made of rubber or that Fitch can take a beating for 25 min and keep going
Anybody else thinks that Maynard is hittin that?
Gray is the man. I knew he was gonna do that to Kenny. And he's gonna do it to Edgar too. Edgar may have BJ's number but that's about all he's got. It's like the fights arent flukes, but it's a fluke in itself that all it takes to beat BJ is to be faster than him standing. I think Edgar got lucky as hell that he avoided the mount and getting his back taken. He was so close to losing his back that one time and if BJ gets your back, boy you are done son. But yeah, whatever, I know Frankie won twice. I know he avoided the bad positions. But I still say he got lucky that he avoided those bad positions. I wish BJ would have got him down in the first round. And I wish BJ would train at Jackson's camp and do some olympic workouts. They can say all they want that he trained hard, but he's not in the shape he needs to be in. Ultimately, it's all BJ's fault that he lost those 2. But it's just a shame to see wasted talent. And annoying that he hasn't been working hard all these years.
Did i not say last 2 fights? and yes you have to give Hardy and GSP credit on the armbar and the kimura but other than that he laid on him and didnt pound on Hardy much i would have to say Maynard beat up Florian ALOT more then GSP beat up Hardy and GSP def just laid on ALvez. never even tried a submission or to stand up...
Last 2 fights? why not bring all his fights into question? Oh thats right cuz then you wouldnt be able to hate on GSP if you look at all his fights.....While Maynard has used this style for his entire MMA career i think.....but GSP incorporates his wrestling in much better then Maynard does. GSP can actually stand with people and pick them apart on the feet then take them down while from what i seen last night, Maynard sits back like a scared little puppy and then shoots and wins the round. But i think you may be bored with GSP cuz he does it 5 rounds while Maynard (thank god) only have to endure it for 3 rounds.
The thing about Hardy is that GSP made him look like a bitch in the whole fight! If he wanted him down he went down if he wanted to stand they would stand till GSP wanted to take him down again. Im just sayin!!! Lol
Yomama: And Maynard did the samething with florian
Daddy: I noticed you put a "i think" in there yea thats right apparently you havent watched many of maynards fights because he stand he rocks people then he shoots he picks people apart just because he stood with florian and waited for him to strike in this one fight, his last fight he stood with Diaz the whole time because he was being smart he bullied diaz just like he did florian and edgar in their first fight, face the facts GSP and Gray have the same style i just dont like GSP because everyone else does and hes arrogant....
I think we both have biased in the way we think. I think GSP doesnt lay and pray cuz hes always changing position and looking for submissions and is not boring cuz he mixes up his takedowns well with his striking. But to me i saw Maynard running away and throwing the hardest punch he could and hopefully it landed on Florian but that didnt work so he just worked for the takedown. But you cant deny that GSP is much better then Maynard in the style they apparently use according to you
Come on event was very good atleast better than 114... I like ko'es but more I like dominations like Edgar against Penn... I think Penn still should stay in LW division...
Why would the UFC give Toney a striker? That is something I keep hearing, but what purpose does that serve for the UFC? Besides, even had they given him a striker, that striker would have done the same thing.... Taken Toney down. The only way Toney would have any chance of beating a mixed martial artist is if Gary Shaw were the promoter and he once again paid out a bonus for a fighter to keep things standing. Anyone know what Seth Petruzelli is up to?
Yeah and giving him Cheik Kongo?? Why are people saying Kongo is a stand up guy when hes incorporating his wrestling much more now....did anyone see the Buentello fight or was it just me
Then UFC should throw in Brandon Vera and let him have a win in the Heavyweight division if hes not already cut for losing so many times. (not a knock on Vera, just that he hasnt been winning)
1. BJ Penn can't handle adversity and beats himself
2. Gray Maynard is a boring, boring, sleep inducing grinder
3. J Lau looked amazing and deserves top level competition
4. Toney was a satisfying sacrificial lamb
5. Couture is the world's most bad ass gramdpa
6. Gray Maynard is the cure to insomnia
7. This was the last decent card until UFC 121. The 119 and 120 cards are horrible.
Couture can't mess with my grandpa.
i just hope bj doesnt turn into liddell lol
hes to stubborn to come off a loss in his MMA career, so hes gonna be back. bjs problem has always been mental i just hope he can bounce back. im routin for you bj im still a big fan
always been mental... and physical, remember when Matt Hughes put that beating on him?... & when he gassed against GSP... its always one thing or another with BJ :\
very true. but nobodies perfect and bj penn got me into MMA and jiu jitsu... i will forever be a loyal BJ Penn hes done so much for the sport
Gray may be boring but im hopeing he'll have a lil more intensity in the fight against Frankie that BJ forgot to bring two fights in a row.
bj is still the best p4p fighter in the world in my opinion
Wow
1. light weight division will be more interesting with the new champion.
2. gray maynard will be edgar.
3. gabe rudiger should never fight in the ufc again
4. nate diaz is a awesome fighter and needs tougher competition
5. james toney cannot speak english
6. mma live will be interesting when ken flo gets back there.
7. clay guida is in the front row of every mma fight. lol
one for extra credit.
8. ufc starting in asia will change the sport and make it even better. i cant wait for all the new talent to join.
supposed to say maynard will beat edgar
Did anyone realize that Toney has tested positive for steroids twice in the past few years? I just found that out today.
BJ would be too slow for welterweight too. He looked like James Toney in the cage on Saturday night. But it could be that Edgar is just so damn fast or a mixture of both. BJ at the rate hes fighting is not gonna do too well in either division. Especially with his crappy cornermen
OK, here are my 7 conclusions from UFC 118:
#1 UFC truly represents a real challenge for any fighter in MMA: Gabe Ruediger was winning fights all over the place, then got back to UFC and got dominated by Joe Lauzon like it was his first MMA fight ever.
#2 Demian Maia is back.
#3 Actually, Demian Maia was never really gone.
#4 Joe Rogan ignores all the commercial interruptions done by Goldberg.
#5 Never doubt Edgar's cardio.
#6 Never doubt Randy Couture.
#7 Nick Diaz will hold a lightweight belt somewhere in the future. Yes, he will and you know it.
f-f-f-f-fail
ofc I meant Nate Diaz
Some may disagree but I thought Edgar Penn was fight of the year by a long way. The reason is BJ is the best LW to have ever lived, and he was dominated by Edgar for 5 rounds, with top top level performance in all areas. His ground game was almost as good as his stand up. He even managed to get out of a dominant BJ top position, and few LW's do that.
If you think BJ was not motivated and looked flat you are completely wrong. Bj was highly motivated for this, you only have to watch his interviews pre fight to know that. The fact was Edgar outclassed him in virtually every part of the game for the majority of the fight and BJ didn't have an answer. Edgar isnt a massive hitter but he doesn't need to be when he is as good as he has become.
Overall I still regard BJ as the better fighter, and Edgar just has a style BJ cant deal with too well, but how many times Edgar can defend his belt may change that view.
We may have seen the sport evolve past BJ saturday night, we may not have, Edgar's fights over the next few years will determine if there's any truth to that, as well as how BJ bounces back.
What next for BJ? He has beaten virtually all the relevant LW's (Edgar not included), and doesn't have many challenges left. However, if Edgar cannot defend his belt successfully over the next year and BJ hangs around, I wouldn't be surprised to see BJ wearing it once again and then Edgar beating BJ for a 3rd time.
If they do ever meet again, I think BJ really needs to work out a gameplan and stick to it. I reckon if he swallowed his pride and forgot the stand up (Edgar is too slick), and work the takedowns and gnp/submissions he would have a great chance as I think that is the way to beat Edgar.
Whatever happens, I hope to see a 3rd fight if BJ is still motivated for it at some point, as the skill level Edgar displayed was phenomenal, and it takes dominating a fighter of BJ's calibre for many to appreciate how good he is. I said in several posts his footwork and head movement is similar to Aldo's, but he dont get rated so much because he isnt a devastating finisher, but hopefully now he will get the respect he deserves as UFC LW champion.
Oh and to all the Edgar haters, DW said its one of the best performances he's ever seen (though anything he says doesn't always means he means it or it has good logic), but in this case I agree. Edgars all round game was fantastic. Bear in mind BJ is actually a little bigger than Edgar and it makes it even more remarkable. It may not please the cavemen amongst you who want meatheads slugging it out, but to the MMA purist it was as good as anything you have seen this year.
Agreed
Fedor is one of my favourite fighters, but beating Rogers was not fight of the year. Rogers was only just making top ten when they fought.
Penn/Edgar was like Fedor/Cain of the LW world. Some fans will argue Brock/Carwin was fight of the year others will argue for Sonnen/Silva, and others will argue for whoever they rate. Personally I can't think of fight I seen this year where the skill sets of both opponents was as high since Penn/GSP II, and Edgar put on a MMA textbook demonstration in all areas against the most devastating LW to have ever fought and that is why I think it is fight of the year. No LW has ever ben able to dominate Penn for 5 rounds or get takedowns over and over.
Some say they disillusioned with Penn, as they seem oblivious to what a high level of MMA they witnessed from Edgar. Penn did not become mediocre overnight, only a fool would believe that, he is still an outstanding fighter and it will be interesting to see if Edgar can beat all the fighters Penn has and match/surpass his accomplishments. Penn if he continues to carry on will still dominate the rest of the LW division. Just Edgar has BJ's number now, that's all.
Kinda off subject. But I'm sick of all the people making the Couture vs Toney fight into something that it is not. It did not show that boxers have no place in MMA. What it showed is that there is much more to MMA than just boxing, as Randy himself has said numerous times. It showed that a boxer can't expect to dominate any well rounded fighter with only his boxing. That said, what is to prevent a world class boxer from learning take down defense or even a good ground game? I believe a fighter is a fighter. Boxers already have good combat instincts. I, personally, would like to see some world class boxers join the sport, and take it seriously. I believe it could add some great depth and diversity to the sport.
The problem is he didnt show anything to prove hes worth another fight. no take down defense, did he even land a strike. why would they wanna give him a fight. maybe if he trained in some wrestleing and b.j.j. but he is so old it may be to late for him. He really didnt do anything in that fight but hype it up to make me wanna watch him get destroyed.
People have such incredibly short attention span its rather funny, BJ lost two fights, so what? Styles make fights and BJ just have trouble with Edgar. I still think Edgar will lose his title to Maynard however, and Maynard will lose his title to a CroCop style striker.
I think Maynard is the LW with the best chance of beating Edgar, but Edgar is vastly improved, and if he can perform to that level consistently over the next few years Maynard aside, I dont see many others giving him alot of trouble.
I think Maynard may have a chance of overpowering him on the ground again, but I fancy Edgar to deal with it this time, as he has learned alot since his loss to him, and is outstanding now in all areas. If Maynard can't get the finish in the first coouple of rounds I fancy Edgar to totally outwork him and put on a MMA demonstration later into the fight as Maynard has dodgy cardio IMO.
Actually I think BJ would beat Maynard.