15-0: Anderson Silva vs. Fedor Emelianenko

I have nothing but respect for both of them. I can think of arguments both ways but argument strong enough to disrespect one of them over the other.

*rolls eyes*

Yea don't mention that silva is pretty much the only guy from pride who hasn't gotten kicked around in the UFC. It's like comparing bob cousy to michael jordan once again, or marciano to ali.



Forrest was champion the very fight before, again exposing bias..i tire of it.



It's all good though, i remember how badly the nuthuggers used to hate on brock because of the idea that he was #1 HW. He wasn't the best by far, but i bet he could destroy most of those guys listed up there,nog would be hardest in his prime. Now silva stands alone to face the wrath of irrationals

Competition in the sport will continue to get better.



Just like how you are discrediting Fedor's wins, Silva too will have his wins discredited by future fans.



Its looking like Jones is going to be the new guy tearing apart competition and people will talk crap about all of Silva's wins because Jones fought better fighters.....in fact its already happening as we speak.





Then Nemesis 2.0 will comment on an article comparing Silva and Jones, and he will be shitting all over Silva's accomplishments.





You will get butt hurt and will say how stupid he is and you two will fight. ........We will laugh at the irony.

Anderson Silva barely fought in Pride...



He had 4 fights against nobodies and even lost one of them. Real impressive.

Now i get it, Fedor lover's hate A.S. because Fedor is far from being relevant these days. F**k him its not Silva's fault this flabby dude has to fight tomato cans to stay afloat.

@ Nemesis; Rampage Jackson, Shogun, Machida, Dan Henderson, Big Nog, Mark Hunt and others have done very well in the UFC. Pride was a long time ago. The fact that there are still guys who were tops in Pride competing at a high level in the UFC just shows how good the pride guys actually were.

Nah that won't really happen. The only people doing that are fedornuthuggers posing as chael fans, like you.



It's the same thing as saying that kobe made jordan irrelevant or that...klitchko is the greatest boxer ever.

BAM... You just nail that dude to the cross!!! Well said and spot on!

Where I come from we say don't bring the "Brigiddy if you don't have the "Braps"

You sir brought the Brigidy BRAPS!!!

no its not. as well basketball as boxing have been around way longer than mma.

@nemesis



I am far from a Fedor nuthugger. I dont care if he wins or loses anymore. But I rooted against him when he fought Hendo and cheered when Hendo won. I cheered for Werdum. And I was rooting for Bigfoot.



In my earlier days as a MMA fan I was hating on Fedor because of his nuthuggers. The more I loved this sport the more I came to respect him. Problem with you is that you are still an infant to this sport (or an infant, intellectually) and cant appreciate older great fighters.

I never hated on fedor, but then guys like you will consider anything less than hype hating. the analogy that went over your head explains exactly what i do, i analyze the era and recognize that talent was subpar back then, and i realize it's invalid to compare the greatest in the beginners era vs the greatest in a current era.



As for the kobe vs jordan analogy, well no chance you're going to understand that but i can't dumb it down any further either.

This is actually a very valid point. This entire comparison is all intangible. The fighters have evolved over time. You can't definitively say Michael Jordan in his prime will beat Kobe Bryant in his prime. When Bryant came into the league Jordan was in his prime, but Kobe was still young and very inexperienced. It's impossible to tell what the outcome of that would be. This provides a great segue to the comparisons people are making about Anderson and Fedor. First of all they were in different weight classes. Secondly, the quality of opponents have changed over time. In my opinion, right now there is no clear cut G.O.A.T. Fedor dominated his era just as Anderson is doing right now.

Anderson, no question. He has lasted through the ages and beaten the new and old school fighters. Fedor hasn't fought the relatively young, well-rounded new MMA Fighters AS has such as Maia, Marquardt, Franklin, Sonnen....many of his Pride fights were farcical and he has been involved in freak shows (hong man choi springs to mind).



Arlovski and Sylvia were past their prime and are not greatly skilled athletes as their current situations and records show. Anderson is the greatest...just like Floyd.

OMG FINAWEE!!!!!



Fedor GOATT! pride rulz dats why every1 wants it bak! pride fiters only lost in ufc cos they got bored with da competition cept silva!



fedor is out of hiz prime cuz he got bored of winning and being da best! anderon cant even beat steroids without cheating!!

@ Anton Gurevich could u plz tell me/ us what was wrond with the Thales Leites fight??? silva tried fighting! tried putting nice combos. he trew punches kicks knees a punch or two to the thigh! then leites would fall to guard??? silva shouldnt have too jump in! even the ice man took up for silva after that 1!! so plz quit using that a an expamle

anton were r u?? in ur mind what was wrong with the Thales Leites fight??

A little proof reading before hitting the post button can do wonders.

itz not aboot pruf read its about how many weeks you get or sharpz!



FEDOOOOORERRRR

Dan Henderson.

I agree, dan henderson is the greatest of all time. He beat silva in a round..WOW. he beat fedor period, need i say more?



He also headbutt franklin,punched out a bisping circling left, and beat the tie against shogun! If thats not GOAT, then he's a young man and my name is chuck vanderhugger

Everywun nose fedor is gr8est chuck!

didnt hendo QUIT b4 he passed out??? plz let go of that choke!!!!

love getting weak for the truth??

My first UFC match i ever watched was Silva vs. Leban, i never even heard of Fedor until i joined this site so you can call me a newbee who have seen this dude get his ass handed to him on numerous occasions.



On the other hand i have not seen A.S. lose yet, thats why IMO he can be considered The G.O.A.T.

Much like Fedor, Silva has been dominated and getting out bested by his opponent. But they both win anyways.



Fedor isnt the same Fedor who was tearing it up in Pride.



Never been a fan of Fedor because much like you I wasnt there to see him fight in Pride, but I admire him. There is no GOAT. Just Greatest of their time.



Silva wont be GOAT because it looks like Jones (though I hate him) is the next big thing. People are/will be calling him GOAT

When it comes to the UFC Silva will be considered GOAT, i honestly prefer him to retire soon than go out like Fedor, Chuck, Randy,Tito,Matt H, Mark Coleman & all the other past their prime fighters who dont know when enough is enough...also Silva has not lost yet in the UFC no matter who had to dope up just to fail.



You watched the fight @ BWW, i tried stopping there to get some food before going to the MGM but went to CANES instead(u know us brothas love chicken) damn DLS we almost crossed paths. I guess god was on your side, nah just kidding homie

Yeah I agree Silva should retire soon because if he loses then people will say it because of old age. And it will be true most likely. And you just had to add the doping thing right lol. But thats okay because I will say that Silva needed a handful of shorts to retain his title lol.



Me and my friends were actually waiting in line at the BWW next to Canes but it was too long so we went to one that was 7 miles away which had no line. Didnt even know Canes had the fight.

I think if Fedor fought smart and got the takedown as early as possible, staying on top, that the size and strength difference would of been too much. Fedor's GnP was ridiculous.



Now enter "Silva has no real contenders" comments below.

I also would like to take into the count that Fedor has fought in the Ring rather than the cage. Fedor stated a few times that it did not matter, but it made a difference a few times. He couldn't swings his hips through the cage when going for the armbar on Brett, same when he fought Hendo, he seemed a bit confused against the cage when Hendo did a beautiful escape to deliver a nasty shot on unsuspecting Fedor. Fedor has always used the ring to his advantage but we did not see that in a cage. Small things like this at such a high level make a big difference.



Either way i think both Fedor and Silva are different animals, and it's very hard to compare them. To me the crowning achievement of Fedor is the first fight against Big Nog and Cro Cop, when he beat them at their own game. But there are so many "moments" that Fedor has, they are in almost every fight.



They are both great.

Everyone likes to point out that the PRIDE HW division was so much better than the UFC. It was better, but not by much. Cro Cop wasn't exposed by Kongo and Gonzaga, but it was sure evident that he wasn't the second best HW in the world. Big Nog was then bested multiple times by Mir.



Lets make this clear, Fedor Emelianenko is the most accomplished HW of all time. He had a dominant run that won't likely be topped ever again. However, he did it in a time in MMA history where talent was split spread across seperate promotions and wasn't nearly as developed as it is today (try and relate the top talent of the HW division today to that of 2003, it doesn't even compare). He also did it in a a division that is on par with MW for low competition level (compared to 155, 170 and 205). Laslty, sprinkled in among great names as Nog, Cro Cop, and Coleman (not sure if that one's great as it is famous); is Yuji Nagata, Naoya Ogawa, Zulu, HMC, and Matt Lindland. It also should be noted that a lot of people think Ricardo Arona bested him in his 4th professional fight.



Enter Anderson Silva: A guy who does compete in a weak division, but as I pointed out earlier only slightly weaker than HW. He has also been in a division with all the top tier talent since 2007. The list of his competitors since 2006 only holds that were outside of the top ten at the time (Travis Lutter, Chris Leben, and James Irvin) and two of those (Leben and Lutter) were borderline. He's beaten Rich Franklin (ranked first and third) 2x, Chael Sonnen (ranked second both times) 2x, Dan Henderson (top 5 at LHW and MW), Forrest Griffin (Top 3 at LHW), Nate Marquardt (top 5), Demian Maia (top 5), Yushin Okami (top 5), Lee Murray (top 10 for all you youngsters), Thales Leites (top 10), Patrick Cote (top 10), Vitor Belfort (top 10).



IMO Anderson SIlva is MMA's Sugar Ray Robinson (the greatest boxer of all time by most of that communities opinion), and Fedor Emelianenko is MMA's Rocky Marciano. Both great, but one just a little bit better.

I don't think Big Nog was ever the same after the 3 fights with Fedor. That GnP added about 10 years to his face.

Again, if MW is the weakest division why would everyone run from it? A professional fight thinks to himself(gee i really don't want to be successful at all while i can compete)



Guaranteed your opinion stems from hype instead of how difficult it is to actually do well in the division, because guys would go on insane winstreaks all the time in WW and that's why everyone moves there. OMG big names!

Alright, I have to put this asinine thought process you have to bed once and for all. First off, you're such an Anderson Silva nuthugger that you don't see any part of me calling him the greatest fighter of all-time (and explaining how his career is more impressive than the great Fedor), you just see the part where I call his division the weakest in MMA history (which has been the general consensus for years). You want to know the main reason why it is thought of that way (and LW also to a lesser extent)? It's because the division didn't even exist in the UFC until 33, and didn't have a title in PRIDE until Bushido 9. It does not have the history 205 and 170 (the marquee divisions in MMA's short history). It didn't even exist in the UFC til 2001.



I never respond to your rant about people running from MW because the people that run from are far outgunned by people who run to it. Basically it's an inaccurate, incompetent, and ill thought out opinion.



The people that have run to MW from 170 throughout their careers (Anderson Silva, Jake Shields - had to be talked out of staying to fight Anderson to go fight GSP and continually brings up going back there, Jorge Santiago, Robbie Lawler, Frank Trigg).



The people that have gone to 185 from 200-205 (Frank Shamrock, Scott Smith, Patrick Cote, Rich Franklin, Evan Tanner, Dan Henderson -went back up to 205 after TRT use began in 2007, Yuki Kondo, Murilo Bustamante, Murilo Rua, Jeremy Horn, Yuki Kondo, Wanderlei Silva, Chael Sonnen, Kazushi Sakuraba, Melvin Manhoef, Michael Bisping, Steve Cantwell, Brian Stann, Doug Marshall, Roger Gracie, Renzo Gracie - jumped between 170-185 later in career, Keith Jardine, Trevor Prangley, Vitor Belfort, Anthony Johnson, Tom Lawlor, Ikuhisa Minowa, Howard Eastman, etc...)



Guys that have moved down to 170 from 185 (Demian Maia, Nate Marquardt, Aaron Simpson, Mike Swick - where'd he have more success at?, Kazuo Misaki, Matt Brown, etc...)



Guys that jumped from 205 through 185 to 170 (Brian Ebersole, Ricardo Almeida, Joe Riggs -went back up at certain points, Carlos Newton - another guy who went back and forth)



This thought process you have that everyone runs from 185 is so far away from reality its laughable.



My opinion involves little hype. Now yours, its Silva or bust.

Omg i'm such a nuthugger i attacked where you were wrong rather than valid points! it's like i wanted to point out flaws in logic!*hands panties back*



Anyways,comparing the UFC today to the UFC of yesterday makes little sense, as EVERY division was far weaker than it is today, just like most sports.Common sense says that if a division is weak, fighters would migrate there because *hold your breath* THEY WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL! Noone wants to win a couple, get blasted, win one, get blasted etc etc. They want to win constantly, make money and possibly build a legacy. This is COMMON SENSE that anyone without some sort of lobotomy should understand.



Now,TODAY where is someone most likely to go on a winstreak?Freaking dan hardy can scrape together 7 wins and he doesn't even hug anyone. In the 170 division TODAY you can pretty much hug your way to a winstreak, you can have a one-dimensional skillset and be successful. You CANNOT do that at 185 and you can see that simply by a cursory examination of a title contenders winstreak, or ANYONE else. You can take every TUF season at 185 and look over how many are wildly successful there today,how many are even relevant? How many vacated and are relevant elsewhere?



But this place isn't designed for debate where i can case by case destroy every point you made. it's for guys with idiotic opinions that shatter under scrutiny to say something ignorant and wait for fellow simians to agree with a simple click. I know if i could make weight, i'd want to try 170 TODAY long before 185. In the days of oldschool heroes, it's another story.

I somewhat agree with you. I feel MW might be a weaker division but it almost might be just because of the champ. I feel If I was to fight in the UFC I would last of all want to fight MW or LHW because of guys in MW like Palhares, Anderson, Maia when he was there, Vitor, Dan Henderson when he was there, Weidman, Belcher and Leben. They all destroy in their own right and same as LHW with Dan Henderson, Shogun, Machida, Jones, Rashad and Rampage, But I wouldn't be as intimidated by GSP, Koscheck, Fitch, Hendricks, Kampmann, or Dan Hardy. I might be afraid of Diaz and Condit but not to the degree of Palhares, Belcher, Dan Henderson, Vitor, Weidman and Anderson. I feel it may be the fact of having to fight real finishers in MW and LHW that would put me off as at least in WW I can get a new chance every round.

Falcon - I understand where your coming from as you mentioned a lot of killers in both the LHW and MW division.



However, if you put the amount of finishes of a theoretical top 10 in 170 & 185 and placed against each other you'd be surprised at how close they are to one another. Just take the top 5 (strictly UFC) and put them opposite one another per finishes: Anderson>GSP, Condit>Sonnen, Diaz -Weidman push, Kampman>Bisping, Hendricks-Munoz push.



Side note: Henderson is a killer at LHW, but the only guy he's finished under 205 since his TRT use is Michael Bisping.

"Omg i'm such a nuthugger i attacked where you were wrong rather than valid points!"



-No you're such a nuthugger because half your argument baseless and incorrect. Not to mention you attack anybody with even a shred of dislike of Anderson Silva.



"it's like i wanted to point out flaws in logic!*"



You might have wanted to. The problem is whenever you try and go against me it doesn't happen. As my opinions are based on reality, while yours are not.



"Anyways,comparing the UFC today to the UFC of yesterday makes little sense, as EVERY division was far weaker than it is today, just like most sports."



-That's a decent line of thinking and all, but that's exactly what this post is about. The entire careers of Anderson Silva and Fedor Emelianenko. So when doing that, the divisions they competed in over their entire careers are taken into account. This should be common sense.



"Common sense says that if a division is weak, fighters would migrate there because *hold your breath* THEY WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL! "



I know! It's like there has to be a list somewhere of guys that changed divisions to compete a weight class that they thought they would have more success in... (hint: two posts above).



Side note: Writing in caps does nothing to make your point any more valid. It just makes you look juvenile.



"Now,TODAY where is someone most likely to go on a winstreak?Freaking dan hardy can scrape together 7 wins and he doesn't even hug anyone."



Dan Hardy scraped together a 7 fight win streak? Really? Because I could have sworn he just lost 4 in a row? Maybe you're thinking of Hector Lombard, Luke Rockhold, Alexander Shlemenko, or maybe even Tim Boestch.



"Noone wants to win a couple, get blasted, win one, get blasted etc etc. They want to win constantly, make money and possibly build a legacy. This is COMMON SENSE that anyone without some sort of lobotomy should understand."



Are you talking to yourself here? You just keep running around your original point that I have already provided proof was incorrect. What is so hard to understand about it?



"In the 170 division TODAY you can pretty much hug your way to a winstreak, you can have a one-dimensional skillset and be successful. "



That's completely incorrect. First off, nobody can really hug there way to anything there as at least half the competitors come from a wrestling background (that'll happen with two of the most famous weight classes of all time being 163 and 174 at the collegiate and olympic levels). Secondly, fighters with better wrestling will be able to "hug" their way to victory at any weight class (Jake Shields was pretty effective at it at 185 for being undersized and an average wrestler).



There haven't been many wrestlers that have come over from the either 187-184 or 84 kgs (Derek Brunson is one of the only people to do so from a high level) where at 170 you have a few national champions (Hendricks, Koscheck, Askren) not to mention multiple all-americans. Weidman and Munoz both dropped down from 196. Austin Trottman is a name that could be very good down the line.



"You CANNOT do that at 185 and you can see that simply by a cursory examination of a title contenders winstreak, or ANYONE else."



Really? You are going to have the balls to say that after openly campaigning that's all Chael did was hug people! Oh, that's just priceless. Anyway Chael isn't the only one that "hugs" in the division. Yushin Okami did what you call "hugging" in 4 out of his last 6 wins before facing Anderson. Tim Boestch first two wins at 185 were against Grove and Ring where he predominantly used his wrestling to take the decision. But I guess you missed those or the many other decisions that happened at 185.



"You can take every TUF season at 185 and look over how many are wildly successful there today,how many are even relevant?"



That's a strawman argument in itself. There are only a handful of successful TUF competitiors, and winners in UFC history. The best was season 5, and after that the only season with an inkling of talent was the HWs. Hell the first MW season wasn't even won by a 185er. Diego had never competed there before winning it.



"But this place isn't designed for debate where i can case by case destroy every point you made."



Actually, that's exactly what it's designed for. It's why I continue to pick apart everything you say. It's pretty easy when doing it to somebody with such a flawed sense of their knowledge.



"it's for guys with idiotic opinions that shatter under scrutiny to say something ignorant and wait for fellow simians to agree with a simple click."



That would actually describe you perfectly. Hooray, you fit in!



"I know if i could make weight, i'd want to try 170 TODAY long before 185."



Well, let me know when you start your imaginary career and weill make sure to follow your fights at WW.

Nice novel bro.

Damn look at that book you wrote. Don't bother saying what was actually WRONG with what i said about silva again? Just say it's wrong, anyone not hating on silva is a nuthugger, that's why guys like you ignore chaels steroid usage.



I'll use the jordan analogy again. NOONE starts at the start of jordans career if they want to acknowledge why he's the greatest. What sense would that make? Noone etalks about what Jesus did when he was 16, or Einstein in highschool, or basically anyone back before they did anything really out of the ordinary. So when you go back to the dark dark days of MMA and post irrelevant names it's just going to crumble under scrutiny because you're clearly being deceptive. Common sense...not common right?



Here's a list of fighters of 170 that are actually RELEVANT who moved there. Koscheck,Shields,BJ penn(if he returns obviously)diego sanchez,jon fitch,martin kampmann,demian maia,matt serra,akiyama,rory mcdonald, amir sadollah.....



k i'll stop there. That wasn't very hard was it now? Deception just works against you in the long run, and the caps are supposed to help you understand but if you're slow you're slow right?



Uhhh no not talking about champions in other organizations outside the UFC, especially since that wouldn't be relevant since they can't fight silva from that other organization? A quick wikipedia shows dan hardy won 7 fights before losing to GSP, incase you're too inept to be able to find that. And another quick search shows that time boetsch has won 3 since last losing, and 2 since his MW debut.....neither of those is 7 and i apologize for not being able to teach you to count simple numbers.



It's hard to understand how you pass off fiction as the truth. The way you can tell is that you wouldn't have to work so hard to doctor your "proof" if it was relevant. I'm not going to waste space in this post pointing out the myriad of lay and pray victories at 170.But i will point out what happened when anthony johnson tried to move up to 185 and LNP vitor belfort.



Never brought up chael, THAT'S a strawman so if you don't know what a word is, don't use it. If you can't grasp the difference bwteen a decision win using wrestling and LNP then you're as lost as when you couldn't count to 7. Look at jon jones vs stephan bonnar, compared to say....shields vs kampmann.



Most of the season 1 competitors in TUF1 for example are successful atleats moderately, all vacated 185.



"Actually, that's exactly what it's designed for."



Had to directly quote that because it's such a joke.All it takes is a 10 second glance at this very page to expose this lie. It's the reason guys like you don't exist in forums.



"That would actually describe you perfectly. Hooray, you fit in!"



Zzzz.I know you are but what am i arguments went out of style in first grade. i guess i know what you were doing while the other kids learned how to count.



I have a career although not in fighting, but if we're talking about careers i'll play the part of your counsellor and advise you not to speak.

I'll just let you know now, I'm the wrong one. You haven't been able to keep so far, and you never will.



"Don't bother saying what was actually WRONG with what i said about silva again?"



I have repeatedly. In fact in this very page multiple times. Your opinion of the 185 lb division is not only off, but factually inaccurate.



"Just say it's wrong, anyone not hating on silva is a nuthugger, that's why guys like you ignore chaels steroid usage."



His TRT usage you mean? The treatment I have campaigned against on this very site about? Or do you mean the 16.9:1 T:E ratio? Do you need a lesson on why that doesn't show the actual amount of testosterone in ones system? We actually have a doctor on this very site that administers the treatment who can give you more information.



"I'll use the jordan analogy again. NOONE starts at the start of jordans career if they want to acknowledge why he's the greatest."



Bullshit. People discussing Jordan's career take into account everything he's done when calling him the greatest of all-time. From his last second shot at UNC, to his dunk contest wins against Dominique Wilkins, to his 63 points against Larry Bird's Boston Celtics in the 1986 playoffs, to his finally overcoming the Pistons and Lakers in the same season. It's his entire career, not just his 6 championships.



"Noone etalks about what Jesus did when he was 16, or Einstein in highschool, or basically anyone back before they did anything really out of the ordinary."



I can't believe this. I'm now debating with somebody who is comparing Anderson Silva to Jesus Christ and Albert ****ing Einstein. Do you really believe, even in your tiny little brain looking for someway out of looking so incompetent, that the career of the best MW in MMA is comparable to the most famous genius and prophet in our world's history? It's not even about their contributions to humanity, its about you actually using the names of a carpenter and physicist in comparison to a professional fighter. I'm lost with you, really.



"So when you go back to the dark dark days of MMA and post irrelevant names it's just going to crumble under scrutiny because you're clearly being deceptive. Common sense...not common right?"



Incorrect. You made a point about "everybody moves to 185". I made a list that not only pointed out fighters throughout MMA history that moved there, but 7 + names that moved there in the past 3 years. That's not the dark days of MMA (and I'm sure you know that, you're just grasping at straws), that's present.



"Here's a list of fighters of 170 that are actually RELEVANT who moved there. Koscheck,Shields,BJ penn(if he returns obviously)diego sanchez,jon fitch,martin kampmann,demian maia,matt serra,akiyama,rory mcdonald, amir sadollah....."



Diego Sanchez didn't "move" there. He was a 170 lb fighter that fought at 185 just to compete on a TV show. Matt Serra never competed at 185 (Reminder: that's what we're talking about, fighters moving away from 185 lets not move away from the actual discussion just because it fits your narrative), Rory macdonald physically couldn't make 155 anymore (I should know I talked to him before his UFC debut, and he also never competed at 185), Jake Shields we've already gone over but since your stressed for examples go ahead. Even with that list of current moves it doesn't stack up to the amount of current moves on mine. Try again.



"k i'll stop there. That wasn't very hard was it now? Deception just works against you in the long run, and the caps are supposed to help you understand but if you're slow you're slow right?"



Do you understand that you still haven't proven anything? That just saying "bringing up fighters from the dark ages" doesn't discount the larger number of relevant fighters I pointed out that moved down. Can you even grasp that concept, or are you too far gone to let any minute amount of logic through.



As for the caps, I said my piece. If you would like to continue writing in bigger letters because you think it makes some type of imaginary point be my guest.



"Uhhh no not talking about champions in other organizations outside the UFC, especially since that wouldn't be relevant since they can't fight silva from that other organization? A quick wikipedia shows dan hardy won 7 fights before losing to GSP, incase you're too inept to be able to find that."



You say you're not talking about champions in other organizations, and then immediately after speak about a win streak where close to half of the victories occurred in a different org. Let me type that one more time: You say you're not talking about champions in other organizations, and then immediately after speak about a win streak where close to half of the victories occurred in a different org...



Anyway, you spoke of win streaks. I pointed out people who achieved them that compare to Dan Hardy as he's had 7 wins (Lombard at MW), then I pointed out a MW (Boestch) that has had a 3 fight win streak in the UFC while Dan Hardy has had 4 (My apologies. 3 and 4 are quite far apart).



"It's hard to understand how you pass off fiction as the truth."



Should I actually wait for you to point that out (actually prove it), or are you just putting it down because it looks pretty?



"The way you can tell is that you wouldn't have to work so hard to doctor your "proof" if it was relevant."



Again, would you actually prove something with this? Or are you just typing things now because you've been schooled repeatedly. Nothing I've put down has been doctored. It's all relevant information.



They just prove your points and opinions ineffective, and incorrect.



"I'm not going to waste space in this post pointing out the myriad of lay and pray victories at 170.But i will point out what happened when anthony johnson tried to move up to 185 and LNP vitor belfort."



You won't or you don't want to because I could simply do the same at 185? Because if you would like to I don't mind. Picking out the multiple decisions at MW's history isn't too hard.



Ah yes, you got me. That one instance (where a fighter came in over 10 lbs in weight) proves everything.



"Never brought up chael, THAT'S a strawman so if you don't know what a word is, don't use it."



One, I know exactly what it means. That's why i used it for you bringing up seasons of TUF (where multiple guys compete out of their primary weight class, and top tier talent hasn't competed there regularly since season 5). Second, you've brought up Chael many times in the past about not only his steroid use, but his only way to win is lay on fighters (mainly Anderson).



"If you can't grasp the difference bwteen a decision win using wrestling and LNP then you're as lost as when you couldn't count to 7."



Nope, I can grasp it quite well. Not sure about where I couldn't count to 7 though. Is it like when you couldn't decide if you were talking about inside the UFC or out?



"Look at jon jones vs stephan bonnar, compared to say....shields vs kampmann."



How about Penn vs. Fitch compared to Marquardt vs. Okami?



"Most of the season 1 competitors in TUF1 for example are successful atleats moderately, all vacated 185."



Most of the season 1 competitors weren't even 185lb fighters to begin with. The best three at 185 (Koscheck, Florian, and Sanchez) were two welterweights and a LW that only competed at 185 because the show didn't have 170.



"Had to directly quote that because it's such a joke.All it takes is a 10 second glance at this very page to expose this lie. It's the reason guys like you don't exist in forums."



A ten second glance at this forum shows multiple conversations between different people. That alone should prove this commenting system provides adequate information sharing between users.



I don't exist in forums? Which are these forums? Sherdog where I've held an account since 2008, and ghosted since 2004? How bout the UG where I've been a member since 2009? What about MMA Junkie where I've been a member for two years, and still comment at regularly? Are these the forums you are talking about, or were you talking about ones that aren't the top 3 frequented sites in MMA's short history? How bout Bloodyelbow and Fightopinion (been at both for 3 years at least)?



"Zzzz.I know you are but what am i arguments went out of style in first grade."



It was actually more of a "takes one to know one" joke, but you're right. I should have just pointed out that you just described yourself, and not me at all.



"I have a career although not in fighting,"



Congratulations!



"but if we're talking about careers i'll play the part of your counsellor and advise you not to speak."



Sorry. I can't just sit idly while an intellectual inferior thinks they can hang with me. If you don't understand by now; I'll be here all day, everyday.

After spending most of the day debating enneagrams,MBTI types,physics and philosophy, i come here and some guy who's so far proven to be a numeric dyslexic says they are too much for me..the glory of not posting in forums eh? Go ahead and post ONE thing i said that was actually wrong about silva again? It's not tas though his only good performances come from using drugs,and i'm trying to say it's natural. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1216552-mma-news-fight-doctor-says-frank-mir-chael-sonnen-abused-steroids-in-the-pastng about silva,for the first time. There's what a real life doctor says about TRT usage/steroids AKA cheating. Again a problem with numbers as you fail to think that it's out of control to have 17 times the normal amount of testosterone in your system when you fight.Jordans last second shot is often sited as the turning point...in a BIOGRAPHY! Not a discussion about GOAT.The other analogies were clearly to compare the best in multiple fields against each other, but if you can't understand ssingle digit numbers it's no wonder something has once again gone over your head.I actually said people move AWAY from 185 to be successful,try to keep up. You posted names and most were completely irrelevant(ie murilo rua...yea he's so successful,as relevant as fedors recent fights).The guys who were relevant are cote i suppose,lawlor i guess,wandy i suppose,brian stann, bisping and vitor. Of all of those, bisping basically having about the same success as 205, vitor is doing extremely well, and stann is atleast relevant. Noone ever said MW was a stronger division than LHW so it's only natural someone would expect to have more success there, durr.Clearly posting unsuccessful fighters doesn't have a point unless you want to be deceptive or you're just stupid.



Matt serra moved to 170 from another division. The discussion is that fighters move AWAY from 185 to be successful and INTO 170 which is harder according to you.Quality over quantity buddy, i'm not posting guys like yuki kondo twice as if they actually did much in the UFC(where AS actually fights).Oh i'm sorry that the hardy number confused you, but i remember stating that guys(plural) can go on crazy winstreaks there, so i'll use another example. Jon fitch moved to welterweight,8 wins before GSP,5 wins after, pure hugging style.Koscheck 5 wins before GSP the first time, and the second time he won against frank trigg who has a whopping TWO wins in the UFC(and yet he was somehow relevant on your list?!) and a couple wins coming by eyepoke fiasco combined with hugging.Thiago alves 7 wins....i'll atleast try and keep it short, since we aren't in a forum.

Compare that with MW where cote and leites have like 5 wins and something is wrong. The part where you pass off fiction as truth can be seen where you post all the names that have very very little relevance overall if we're having a discussion about "anderson silva is the champ in the weakest division!!" Pretty sure right now all divisions are weak compared to the UFC, so why post guys like yuki kondo or frank trigg and proceed to fellate yourself?



You don't know what a strawman is, or you wouldn't have misused the word and then done the exact same thing yourself.Don't remember calling chael a lay and pray fighter, probably because i didn't and you have to lie about what i said to provide yourself with an argument you can actually touch. There,now you know what a strawman is.

How about basically anyone VS fitch, or koscheck vs a few, or johnson vs hardy or....even you might get the point.GSP is definitely guilty of that as well vs anyone with any kind of striking at all lately.



Another strawman. Didn't say it doesn't provide "adequate sources of info" remember saying it wasn't meant for a place to have a debate and lucky for you.You don't exist in your current incarnation in forums no,i imagine you have to smarten up there, even on sherdog, because if anyone tries to nuthug chael or use constant logical fallacies to keep from backsliding in a debate(strawman,red-herring,filibuster technique) they'll be dismissed. I'll post an example in the future.

So you used another low-wit childhood comeback instead of the one i recognized,i'm sure that memorizing how those work was worth a lifetime of being inept with simple numbers.



Anybody can call anyone else an "intellectual inferior" here. Where they are actually exposed is when one of them constantly fumbles with numbers(17 not a big change from one, 2 compares to 39,9 compares to 16 etc) and the other guy has to point it out.Being here everyday all day for example, is HARDLY the type of thing anyone with any intelligence would brag about.

"After spending most of the day debating enneagrams,MBTI types,physics and philosophy, i come here and some guy who's so far proven to be a numeric dyslexic says they are too much for me..the lory of not posting in forums eh?"



-Apparently you can do all that stuff, and still not read any of my comments. As I've just posted how your interpretation of Anderson only losing to guys he overlooks was completely false, and how I participate on multiple forums.



Numeric dyslexic? You're cute.



"It's not tas though his only good performances come from using drugs,and i'm trying to say it's natural. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1216552-mma-news-fight-doctor-says-frank-mir-chael-sonnen-abused-steroids-in-the-pastng about silva,for the first time."



-Wow, this ones all sorts of jumbled up garbage. I don't know why you're spending so much time on this cause as I've said (and plenty of people who I converse with on this and multiple other forums. Put that last part in just for you since the word forum apparenlty makes you happy.) that I am against TRT use. That it is a way around drug testing, and gives an unfair advantage to older athletes.



"There's what a real life doctor says about TRT usage/steroids AKA cheating."



-Yes, and your too stupid/ignorant/blind to realize that I have been against it from the start.



But as I've said before, we have a "real life doctor" (hahaha opposed to the fake life doctors) on this very site who actually administers the treatment.



"Again a problem with numbers as you fail to think that it's out of control to have 17 times the normal amount of testosterone in your system when you fight."



-Whoa, you can read all that crap you talk about at the beginning of your post, but you can't do a simple Google search to figure out that a 16.9:1 T:E ratio doesn't measure the amount of testosterone in your system? That it measures the ratio of Testosterone compared to the epitosterone?



I told you, we have a resident doctor here who would be more than helpful towards you on this subject.



Again, as I've said many times, I am against the treatment (I figured I'd just start reminding you over and over until that little factoid sinks into your skull).



"Jordans last second shot is often sited as the turning point...in a BIOGRAPHY! Not a discussion about GOAT.The other analogies were clearly to compare the best in multiple fields against each other, but if you can't understand ssingle digit numbers it's no wonder something has once again gone over your head."



-OMG! Its sited in a biography! That must make your asinine point valid!

Anyways, we are not talking about turning points. We would be talking about Jordan's full resume that makes him the best of all time in basketball.



-Any comparison of a mixed martial artist to Albert Einstein or Jesus Christ is retarded. There's no need to even discuss it. They literally have no relatable qualities when their professions are brought up in the same light. It was just a terrible attempt by you (kinda like your whole "numbers" defense now) at creating another talking point against me in this thread. Where many others exist.



"I actually said people move AWAY from 185 to be successful,try to keep up."



-Yes I know. And I posted information on why that opinion is inaccurate.



"You posted names and most were completely irrelevant(ie murilo rua...yea he's so successful,as relevant as fedors recent fights)."



-No, most weren't irrelevant. A lot were but it was a discussion on the 185 lbs division in all of MMA's short history. You didn't change it to relevant fighters (then coincidentally included fighters that changed divisions over 5 years ago) until I disproved your original point. Still, the amount of fighters I posted that are active today and relevant today, dwarfs your list.



"The guys who were relevant are cote i suppose,lawlor i guess,wandy i suppose,brian stann, bisping and vitor. Of all of those, bisping basically having about the same success as 205, vitor is doing extremely well, and stann is atleast relevant. Noone ever said MW was a stronger division than LHW so it's only natural someone would expect to have more success there, durr.Clearly posting unsuccessful fighters doesn't have a point unless you want to be deceptive or you're just stupid."



-First off, the converstation has already switched many times. You first changed it to fighters move away from 185 because they have a better chance at other weight classes. That's I just provided a full list to combat that false opinion. Secondly, half the list you posted didn't move away from anything (Diego and Kenny), simply couldn't conduct the weight cut anymore (Serra and MacDonald), or tried to stay at 185 but was talked out of it by Dana (Shields).



"Matt serra moved to 170 from another division. The discussion is that fighters move AWAY from 185 to be successful and INTO 170 which is harder according to you."



-Matt Serra moved to 170 from 155 because he could not make the cut anymore and 155 was taken out of the UFC. Conveniently, you are forgetting (or just don't know because you haven't been a fan as long as others) that Serra acutally moved to 155 from 170 at the beginning of his UFC career.



"Quality over quantity buddy, i'm not posting guys like yuki kondo twice as if they actually did much in the UFC(where AS actually fights)."



-Yuki Kondo was one of the best fighters in the world at LHW/HW in the early parts of last decade. He made the move down to 185 because he started to fall off. Just a little history lesson since you seem to not know much about the early part of MMA.



Again, this was posted because the discussion was about the MW division throughout the past 10-15 years at the time. A fact, you keep burying because you changed the point of this conversation so many times.



"Oh i'm sorry that the hardy number confused you, but i remember stating that guys(plural) can go on crazy winstreaks there, so i'll use another example. Jon fitch moved to welterweight,8 wins before GSP,5 wins after, pure hugging style.Koscheck 5 wins before GSP the first time, and the second time he won against frank trigg who has a whopping TWO wins in the UFC(and yet he was somehow relevant on your list?!)"



-Why are you posting three people who had winstreaks? I already posted winstreaks from guys that mirror this; Yushin Okami 6 fight winstreak, Nate Marquardt 7 fight unbeaten streak, Vitor 5 fight unbeaten streak.



Frank Trigg went on a winstreak after being beaten out of the UFC's WW division at 185 (one of which contained the top 5 ranked Kazuo Misaki). You have to remember, you don't know much about MMA's timeline. PRIDE actually had some great fighters from the beginning to 2006. He then made a trek back to 170, and got destroyed twice. That's why he's relevant to the conversation.



"Compare that with MW where cote and leites have like 5 wins and something is wrong."



-Oh yea! Cote and Leites they had streaks at MW too. Thanks for adding to my list.



"The part where you pass off fiction as truth can be seen where you post all the names that have very very little relevance overall if we're having a discussion about "anderson silva is the champ in the weakest division!!"



-Anderson has been the champ in that weak division for 6 years now. That makes names that have switched to 185 in that time frame (Murilo Rua, Yuki Kondo, Scott Smith, and others that irrelevant now) extremely relevant to the conversation at hand. Try and keep up.



"Pretty sure right now all divisions are weak compared to the UFC, so why post guys like yuki kondo or frank trigg and proceed to fellate yourself?"



Yep, that's why when I posted about their changing divisions it was relevant to the conversation. As I said above, Anderson's reign has lasted 6 years, and he's been in the UFC for close to 7. You passing people off as irrelevant now is of no consequence to the actual line of thinking at hand.



"You don't know what a strawman is, or you wouldn't have misused the word and then done the exact same thing yourself."



As I pointed out, I know exactly what it is. You using it to describe me just because I bring up your past describing of Sonnen, compared to your current thoughs on 170 mirroring each other just destroys your points.



However, I could post a link to the definition if you're having trouble.



"Don't remember calling chael a lay and pray fighter, probably because i didn't and you have to lie about what i said to provide yourself with an argument you can actually touch. There,now you know what a strawman is."



You lying about something doesn't turn me into a straw man. It's just you running away from arguments you made in the months prior to the second Silva-Sonnen scrap.



"How about basically anyone VS fitch, or koscheck vs a few, or johnson vs hardy or....even you might get the point.GSP is definitely guilty of that as well vs anyone with any kind of striking at all lately."



Yes it definitely describes certain fighters at 170. I never denied that. I simply have pointed out instances of it happening at 185. Marquardt-Salaverry, Okami-Swick, Boestch-Grove, the list goes on.



"Another strawman. Didn't say it doesn't provide "adequate sources of info" remember saying it wasn't meant for a place to have a debate and lucky for you."



No I just don't feel like posting the exact times when you made those argument. You yourself know what you've said in the past. It's not a secret. His only chance was to lay on Anderson for 5 rounds.



"You don't exist in your current incarnation in forums no,i imagine you have to smarten up there, even on sherdog, because if anyone tries to nuthug chael or use constant logical fallacies to keep from backsliding in a debate(strawman,red-herring,filibuster technique) they'll be dismissed."



You have some type of abnormal love for these forums that might be unhealthy. People get called out on forums, but people get called out here all the same. In fact, I'll do it right now. I've have never once nut-hugged Chael Sonnen on this or any other site. You saying that, when there is no evidence that exists in the world is a strawman argument. Hell, just as DLS (bizarro you) about it and apparently I hate the guy.



"I'll post an example in the future.

So you used another low-wit childhood comeback instead of the one i recognized,i'm sure that memorizing how those work was worth a lifetime of being inept with simple numbers."



Ok, I'll wait for it then. I made fun of your remarks about childhood expression, because its funny. I told you, I'm having fun here. Tearing apart your arguments on their own wouldn't be worth doing unless I got some enjoyment out of it.



Oh yea, and then there's your "This is Chewbacca" like defense of that whole numbers thing again.



"Anybody can call anyone else an "intellectual inferior" here."



Of course they can, as I just did it.



"Where they are actually exposed is when one of them constantly fumbles with numbers(17 not a big change from one, 2 compares to 39,9 compares to 16 etc) and the other guy has to point it out."



And we've come full circle on the strawman arguments, as I haven't once fumbled with numbers on here. I simply posted a funny description of your 7 fighter winner (Dan Hardy) who was most recently on a 4 fight losing streak. Then proceeded to name fighters that won more in a row at 185 (Hector Lombard).



"Being here everyday all day for example, is HARDLY the type of thing anyone with any intelligence would brag about."



I wasn't bragging. I was pointing out the fact no matter what you post here I will be right behind with an effective, and frankly better rebuttal. Somebody that debates philosophy, enneagrams of personality (which I believe is what your trying to pass of knowledge of), and physics should be able to understand that.

Your comments worth reading? Maybe if more of what you posted was relevant and not designed to take up as much space as possible.Anderson only has 4 losses...maybe you posted in the wrong place and got confused by your own BS.I'm cute, but you already have a boyfriend, he has no nuts but you're still trying to hug them.Could care less if older athletes have a legitimate use for TRT to compete with younger guys. it just annoys me how some guys use steroids early on, and then dope themselves up through this process to make guys liek you salivate at the thought of a legitimate champion losing.

I'm not about to follow you around to find out what you do or don't believe, all i know is that guys AGAINST what sonnen did don't get butthurt when i bash him for it.If it's ignorant not to follow you around i'm cool with that, it's the disadvantage of having the exact same opinions as everyone else i guess.Not gonna assume someone who says they are a doctor on here is the real sense, going to use common sense and go with actual doctors who say he cheated.*skips over the semantic debate about whether or not 16.9 to 1 compared to a normal 1to1 is indicative of cheationg* *shakes head*



Not one person is ever going to say "jordan is the GOAT because of his first, last second buzzer beater!"thanx.Any comparison to the leader of any industry or any icon would be appropriate for you to miss the point.I'm sure i could use anyone who's ever been noted for doing anything and you'd still whine.

Don't remember saying "MW was never a weak division!" but that's the selective reading thing going on. Remember saying it's not a weak division, but don't feel bad alot of your clones respond before they read and comprehend.If you think those names are relevant, look up the word, i did you the favour of posting which ones actually were to give you a clue.



Conversation hasn't switched. Maybe you got lost in your own book and can't remember where you are, like when you supposedly told me about andersons "secret" losses. If you were smart you would have pointed out that shields hasn't been successful at 170 at all, but instead you went with excuses...just saying.



Yuki kondo WAS? What is this word was? Quick scroll back up...looong before you wrote your first book, that i said "Again, if MW is the weakest division why would everyone run from it?" See how i can directly quote that, because it isn't made up? it's still there, unedited.Now,let me help you actually understand what is apparently a complex piece of literary thinking. See the word IS? You notice that's not past tense? WHOA! that like..totally means that anything you posted about the past doesn't matter duude!READ,COMPREHEND,RESPOND.



Ok okami and marquardt you have a good point, but i consider them alot better than dan hardy, regardless of weight. Vitor i don't know what you're smoking.Guys that switched to andersons division, but have NO chance of fighting him because they aren't in the UFC, and don't pose any threat anyways..are relevant? Here's how it is. Guys like to say MW is a weak division, and that AS is only champ because he doesn't have REAL challengers in that division.That's really the only reason someone would say that. Why then, would you post the names of people who can't possibly challenge him? Why not post the names of people who move to andersons zone and are actually effective there? Oh, that list is much shorter isn't it, i already did it for you.



If you knew what a strawman was, you wouldn't think i was calling YOU a strawman simple one. I already defined it, and why not link me to where i said that sonnen is a lay and pray fighter instead? Because it didn't happen.LOL i can't turn you into a strawman. Once again you clearly demonstrate that you have no idea what the term actually means.Go ahead and quote me or you're a coward or a liar.



There's instances of lay and pray happening at every division, it just happens with more frequency at WW. Frequency can be said to be quantity, quantity is related to numbers so no wonder you are confused.His only chance was to lay on anderson for 5 rounds? READ,COMPREHEND,RESPOND.How else is he going to win?He's gonna knock him out or submit him? You saw the word "lay"and jumped to the conclusion that i said he was an LNP fighter because you've got a crush,pathetic.



Abnormal love is really just a common sense observation that a forum is much better for debates than a single page that you can flood with so much spam that even you can't keep track(where are andersons other losses?).That wouldn't be a strawman argument, it'd be an ad-hominem argument if anything. You used it incorrectly AGAIN.



When i was 7 years old i got enjoyment out of "I know you are but what am i"and then i learned to count. Ofcourse hector lombard won more than dan hardy..it's probably because he's a better fighter...



A person who studies enneagrams,psychological profiles and such should realize that you're a delusional histrionic.



To be continued, on another page since this isn't a forum.

"Your comments worth reading? Maybe if more of what you posted was relevant and not designed to take up as much space as possible."



Bullshit, bullshit, and more bullshit. I'm only taken up the needed space available to pick apart your stupidity each time.



"Anderson only has 4 losses...maybe you posted in the wrong place and got confused by your own BS."



Nope, not confused at all. Just having fun tearing apart kid who thinks he knows it all because he started college. Let me give you a little life lesson (it really will help): Just because you study certain things, does not make you an expert on everything. If you realize that down the road, you won't be such a little bitch.



"I'm cute, but you already have a boyfriend, he has no nuts but you're still trying to hug them."



Nope, no boyfriend. Wouldn't be anything wrong with that though if anybody around here was gay anyway, but I am not.



"Could care less if older athletes have a legitimate use for TRT to compete with younger guys."



I was using cute in an insulting way. As your outbursts are becoming more and more childlike.



If this were actually true you would not have posted this...



"it just annoys me how some guys use steroids early on, and then dope themselves up through this process to make guys liek you salivate at the thought of a legitimate champion losing."



right afterwards. It obviously effects you in a seriuus matter as you continue to place me into a position that I've never taken. I do not wish for Anderson to lose. I simply thought Chael would beat him, and I was wrong.



"'m not about to follow you around to find out what you do or don't believe, all i know is that guys AGAINST what sonnen did don't get butthurt when i bash him for it."



You're right and your wrong. Personally, I wouldn't give a shit what stupidity you tried to spread around this site about TRT use. The problem is, you attempted to call me out on multiple pages. That was the wrong idea. Now, just to make you look stupid, I will poke holes in every opinion you have.



"If it's ignorant not to follow you around i'm cool with that, it's the disadvantage of having the exact same opinions as everyone else i guess."



Your obviously still following me around. Or you wouldn't have started this whole back and forth on a point as minute as 185 is the weakest division in MMA's short history, right after I post about how Anderson is still the greatest fighter so far.



"Not gonna assume someone who says they are a doctor on here is the real sense, going to use common sense and go with actual doctors who say he cheated."



No, you're going to assume that the opinions of one doctor are valid because it fits your preconcieved notion. There's many other opinions besided just Michael's opinion on this site that point to TRT being a legitimate medical need. You simply won't listen to that because you don't agree with it.



"skips over the semantic debate about whether or not 16.9 to 1 compared to a normal 1to1 is indicative of cheationg* *shakes head*"



It's not semantics, no matter how much you would like it to be. Actually, maybe you don't understand what semantics mean?



"Not one person is ever going to say "jordan is the GOAT because of his first, last second buzzer beater!"thanx.Any comparison to the leader of any industry or any icon would be appropriate for you to miss the point."



Yes, and no its not about me missing the point. It's about mixed martial arts compared to carpentry/religion/physics is dumb. There's no way around it.



"I'm sure i could use anyone who's ever been noted for doing anything and you'd still whine."



No you could use great fighters in history like Ali, Robinson, or Moore. You could also use great wrestlers like Dan Gable, Buvaisar Saitiev, or Cael Sanderson. Hell, you could use athletes from other sports. However, relating Silva to Einstien and Jesus is just retarted. Plain and simple.



"Don't remember saying "MW was never a weak division!"



That's basically what this whole conversation is about.



"Remember saying it's not a weak division, but don't feel bad alot of your clones respond before they read and comprehend."



Might want to either take your own advice or read your own material. This whole debate is about you trying to prove 185lbs is not a weak division. Or at least that's what began it.



"Conversation hasn't switched. Maybe you got lost in your own book and can't remember where you are, like when you supposedly told me about andersons "secret" losses."



When I supposedly told you about Anderson's secred losses? You high? Maybe drunk? Is it legal for you to drink yet?



Anyway, I make sure to post every single thing I comment on for you so you can't run from it later on. Which you are trying to do now.



"If you were smart you would have pointed out that shields hasn't been successful at 170 at all, but instead you went with excuses...just saying."



Jake Shields has about 2 losses in his last 20 fights at 170. Losses to Ellenberger and Shields don't make him unsuccessful there. Nice try at deflecting more though.



"Yuki kondo WAS? What is this word was? Quick scroll back up...looong before you wrote your first book, that i said "Again, if MW is the weakest division why would everyone run from it?" See how i can directly quote that, because it isn't made up? it's still there, unedited.Now,let me help you actually understand what is apparently a complex piece of literary thinking. See the word IS? You notice that's not past tense? WHOA! that like..totally means that anything you posted about the past doesn't matter duude!"



He's a piece of MMA's timeline that proves 185 is (now) and has always been weak (because even though you can find one thing you wrote). The discussion was about the careers of Anderson (now over 6 years in the UFC) and Fedor Emelianenko.



If it didn't matter than this conversation would have never started. Or maybe you would have just never commented as the careers of two people who have been fighting for over a decade don't just exist in the now.



"Vitor i don't know what you're smoking.Guys that switched to andersons division, but have NO chance of fighting him because they aren't in the UFC, and don't pose any threat anyways..are relevant? Here's how it is. Guys like to say MW is a weak division, and that AS is only champ because he doesn't have REAL challengers in that division."



What about Vitor, he didn't go on the run at MW before he fought Anderson?



Yes, and I'm not one of them. Me saying that he comes from a weak division does not automatically put me in line with people who think his run as garbage. This should be common sense since I have called him the greatest repeatedly.



"Why then, would you post the names of people who can't possibly challenge him? Why not post the names of people who move to andersons zone and are actually effective there? Oh, that list is much shorter isn't it, i already did it for you."



I did, and posted the names who tried to move their throughout history because (facepalm) Anderson has been champ for a long freaking time.



"Frequency can be said to be quantity, quantity is related to numbers so no wonder you are confused.His only chance was to lay on anderson for 5 rounds? "



So now, in your own round about dumb kid way, are admitting you said Chaels only chance against Anderson is to lay on him for 5 rounds. Which is saying he is a lay n pray fighter, other wise what the hell is laying on Anderson for 5 rounds?



Ah, that one deserves a self high five. I didn't even half to go back and find the thread where you said that. Thanks for saving me the time.



"You saw the word "lay"and jumped to the conclusion that i said he was an LNP fighter because you've got a crush,pathetic."



Yes, laying on Anderson for 5 rounds is lay n pray. Seriously thanks again for admitting that I was dreading finding the multiple spots you shot your mouth off.



Also, the only thing pathetic is a dumb college tho thinks he actually is getting over on people when in fact he gets destroyed over and over.



"Abnormal love is really just a common sense observation that a forum is much better for debates than a single page that you can flood with so much spam that even you can't keep track(where are andersons other losses?)."



Now you've gone off the deepend. Please point out where I've said he has more than the losses to ground fighting specialists. Are you really that delusional you think you can just post a straight up lie and I'd agree to it?



"That wouldn't be a strawman argument, it'd be an ad-hominem argument if anything. You used it incorrectly AGAIN"



The only points I've called you a strawman is when you posted information about me you know didn't exist. I haven't once used it incorrectly.



"When i was 7 years old i got enjoyment out of "I know you are but what am i"and then i learned to count. "



When was that 11/12 years ago?



"Ofcourse hector lombard won more than dan hardy..it's probably because he's a better fighter..."



Or its because he competed in a weaker division.



"A person who studies enneagrams,psychological profiles and such should realize that you're a delusional histrionic."



Ah, here's where your youthful exuberance let you down again. A person who is an expert in those would realize that I am picking everything you say apart, and you've ran away from so many things its sad.



A person who studies it isn't shit, yet.

Only needed available space? Well i wonder why you should need soooooo much to basically say nothign at all.Why do you think i just started college? *shrugs* Is it because you have never seen some of these words before and have become insecure?

Let me give you a life lesson:Internet toughguys don't do well offline, and most of chaels nuthuggers are internet toughguys.If you have to constantly repress your stupidity in real life or even other sites because you're scared, it's not healthy.

If you're consistantly intelligent you won't have to hide here "everyday,allday".



I continue to place you into a position you've never taken? I'm just filing you with the other guys on chaels nuts...(that's figurative).I've called you out on multiple pages? *shrugs* Must have said stupid things on multiple pages then, don't

flatter yourself by acting like i'm following you. LOL...seems you did just that right after*pats your head* Whoa if you think he's the greatest fighter so far i wonder how you can call someone who's said much less a nuthugger? Add hypocrite

to the long list of things i've called you.



No as though i can't find more doctors to agree with that, since it's common sense. I'm not like you, i won't waste an insane amount of space just because i can.Ok using analogies in other fields makes you cry, won't ever do it again and i'll watch as you find

another way to miss the point on your way to a red-herring fallacy. You said "I've posted about how andersons loses to guys he overlooks is false" so ummm..where else has he lost? That pretty much seems to explain all the losses besides okami..what are you talking about?





Dopey, he's gone 2 and 2 at WW and to me that's not successful, although his standup was alot better in his last fight. But there goes relevance and numbers again so i'm not surprised you're confused.

Vitor switched to MW OUTSIDE UFC and beat a couple irrelevants before facing franklin at a higher weight. It's irrelevant because obviously having a couple wins in organizations with less talent,

doesn't mean you can tear through that division in the UFC,understand yet? he got a champion because he's got a reputation as a great fighter, like lombard.



Yea, wrestlers lay on other people dopey.That's just hwo the sport is. NOW, just because chael has to physically lay on someone else, does NOT mean he's laying and praying by just holding the guy

there and not doing anything. DO...YOU....UNDERSTAND?



The only thing pathetic is a "dumb college tho"...don't know what that is, definitely isn't me. You never "called me a strawman" you dunce. A strawman is a type of fallacy, noone calls anyone else a strawman.These are simple things people learn when they first learn the term.

You used it incorrectly once again for that reason, but you won't admit it ofcourse.



You really think dan hardy is a better fighter than hector lombard? Go ahead and post that in a lombard discussion, i'm confident even your other clones will disagree with you there.





And the last part is a delusion, but ofcourse you're very very dishonest so you're not going to admit to anything.And people who never admit to anything are *gulp* delusional.But you're nice and safe on your page where you can spam on the internet, noone but me will notice

what you're actually saying and it's pretty much my word against yours.



Continued on another page, cya there dopey.

"Only needed available space? Well i wonder why you should need soooooo much to basically say nothign at all."





So much? Don't you study on a daily basis (which we both know you don't, you're just some dumb emo kid that thinks he can fool people here)? If you did you'd be sure to know that my posts don't take long at all, and frankly are just responses to each one or your (inaccurate) opinions.



"Why do you think i just started college? *shrugs* Is it because you have never seen some of these words before and have become insecure?"



*shrugs* *laughs* shakes head*



No, it's because you conduct youself in a manner of a college kid who thinks he's smarter than he actually is. You use a decent vocabulary, but you still provide no reasoning for your points (that I have already pointed out over and over are incorrect). I have nothing to be insecure about, I'm not some dumb college kid (who might not be in college at all) trying way too hard.



"If you have to constantly repress your stupidity in real life or even other sites because you're scared, it's not healthy.

If you're consistantly intelligent you won't have to hide here "everyday,allday"."



Already answered that one, but it's evident you read very little of what I reply to you (specifically the things that shut down your fallacies).



"Let me give you a life lesson:Internet toughguys don't do well offline, and most of chaels nuthuggers are internet toughguys."



Ah, the youngster thinks he can give out lessons because he can spell delusional! All say it again, that's cute.



But where this logic falls short is I don't provide a persona that is false. One, I've never implied/pretended/acted like I was a Chael fan/nuthugger. The one here that is a "nuthugger" is you, and its for Anderson Silva (who lets be honest isn't a bad guy to slob on whenever possible). The problem is when you get into a debate/conversation there's no room for intelligent criticism. You see everything as an attack, and jump to with your BS train to defend your hero. It almost makes me wonder when it started. Were you this staunch a defender of Fedor until he lost?



Also, I am former combat veteran, the last thing I need is a lesson on is what a tough guy is from some kid whose only jobs have probably come in restaurants or deli.



"I continue to place you into a position you've never taken? I'm just filing you with the other guys on chaels nuts...(that's figurative).I've called you out on multiple pages? *shrugs* Must have said stupid things on multiple pages then, don't

flatter yourself by acting like i'm following you."



Yes, yes, and yes. Great, I'm glad your admitting to saying stupid things on multiple pages. It's a good start to growing up (something you'll do soon, I assure you).



As for following me, I never said that. I said you called me out on multiple pages, but I'll elaborate. When you called me out, you didn't do it with any foresight. The problem you have is your opinions aren't based on reality, logic, or intelligent thought. So when you called me out, it was baseless.



"LOL...seems you did just that right after*pats your head* "



LOL, and *pats head*, yea it's real hard to figure out how old you are...



"Whoa if you think he's the greatest fighter so far i wonder how you can call someone who's said much less a nuthugger?"



Much less? Appearing on any article/thread/discussion calling out posters who disagree even in the slightest in a disrespectful manner is much less? How about the asinine notion of 185 being on par with top tier divisions (the conveniently changing the argument after your opinion is shot down.



"Ok using analogies in other fields makes you cry, won't ever do it again and i'll watch as you find

another way to miss the point on your way to a red-herring fallacy."



Good idea. It was a terrible attempt to begin with.



Second part, blah blah blah...



"You said "I've posted about how andersons loses to guys he overlooks is false" so ummm..where else has he lost? That pretty much seems to explain all the losses besides okami..what are you talking about?"



Because it's a completely unproveable point. Its like saying GSP only loses to guys he overlooks. The one common trait the guys that beat Anderson (not including Okami because that fight was a sham) or give him trouble is being good on the ground. Takase, Chonan, and Azeredo all have one thing in common; they are good on the ground in some way.



"Dopey, he's gone 2 and 2 at WW and to me that's not successful, although his standup was alot better in his last fight."



Yes, and carries multiple quality wins at WW outside of the UFC that were against good competition (Daley, Pyle, N. Thompson).



"Vitor switched to MW OUTSIDE UFC and beat a couple irrelevants before facing franklin at a higher weight. It's irrelevant because obviously having a couple wins in organizations with less talent,"



Lindland was far from irrelevant when he KO'd him. He was looked at as a guy who could give Anderson an incredibly hard time (by some, not by me), and was ranked in the top 5 just a year and a half prior. He was dropped from there because he took too much time off then beat a garbage opponent in Nascimento. Lindland was the big favorite in the match.



The Franklin fight happened at 195. One, that's not far off from 185 anyway, and two Rich is/was one of the best 185lber of all time (maybe second best). Vitor's KO of him was a damn good spark at 185.



"he got a champion because he's got a reputation as a great fighter, like lombard."



He got a champiohship fight (which is what I'll assume you were going for) because he beat the guy who most consider a great all time 185er, and also beat Lindland (who carries the distinction of being extremely disliked by Zuffa and was high regarded at the time).



"The only thing pathetic is a "dumb college tho"..."



Supposed to be dumb college kid, just like I'd assume "cheationg" you meant cheating.



"You never "called me a strawman" you dunce."



No I did. And I did it incorrectly. You are correct. It was used it in the wrong connotation.



However, if were correcting general terms now, noone (or NOONE as you've capitialized it so many times) isn't a real word. It's the combination of "no one" or "no-one". You're thinking of "nobody".



"Yea, wrestlers lay on other people dopey.That's just hwo the sport is. NOW, just because chael has to physically lay on someone else, does NOT mean he's laying and praying by just holding the guy

there and not doing anything. DO...YOU....UNDERSTAND?"



Screaming in an argument doesn't give your point anymore validity. The same things go for typing in all caps in a written debate. Laying on somebody to win is "laying and praying". You saying "DO YOU UNDERSTAND.." at the end doesn't enforce your point (or an illogical position) anymore than whining and slamming your fists on a table like a child would. It just makes you look like an idiot.



"You really think dan hardy is a better fighter than hector lombard? Go ahead and post that in a lombard discussion, i'm confident even your other clones will disagree with you there."



I said Hardy was better? I could have sworn I just said his streak was better/longer because it came in a weaker division. I never compared either one. However, if the only thing that matters to you is UFC competition (which you keep using as a base in other points), why does Lombard matter at all?



"And the last part is a delusion, but ofcourse you're very very dishonest so you're not going to admit to anything.And people who never admit to anything are *gulp* delusional."



Very very dishonest? You sure I'm not just very dishonest? How bout just dishonest? Well, the problem for you is I'm none of the three. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong as I've done so earlier in this post.



Now you on the other hand are quite delusional. You don't have the life experience necessary to give anybody a lesson. You're certainly not experienced enough have a life altering opinions.



"But you're nice and safe on your page where you can spam on the internet, noone but me will notice

what you're actually saying and it's pretty much my word against yours."



I'm gonna steal your describing of a physical motion here *shakes head* apparently participating in discussions on multiple sites constitutes staying safe on "my page".

Thanks

heavyweight is baddest division on da planet! GSP could not cut it in HW! HW iz sew hard dat even priede elite can only survive for so long!

@evan holober: if the MW division is that poor why are you putting their rankings as if it mattered? you write a lot but you really dont analyse anything... for example forrest griffin was one of the worst champions the UFC has had. when you just write things like he was ranked 3rd at LHW and dont analyse that at that point LHW was going on a generational change and the category sucked itjust shows how biazed you are.

Dude, Cro Cop had already been through the mill by the time Gonzaga did that.

He had a long career, but he was the same guy who won the OWGP 8 months prior.

ill put it like this AS in his mma career has only fought maybe 1 top 10 P4P fighter. and that will be dan henderson. and who knows after losing with rampage he maybe was out of the top 10. fedor has beaten twice big nog, and on their first fight big nog was considered number 1 P4P. also he beat crocop that for sure was a top 10 P4P at the time. this also shows your biazed commentaries when saying that crocop and big nog didnt do well at UFC. you should use some logic and realize they were obviously past their prime because of the wars they had at pride. 5 years before they went to the UFC those 2 guys with fedor were top 3 HW and top 10 P4P. thats the real important thing... fedor at his prime fought much better competition than AS at his prime. IMO AS is a better fighter but fedor has done more beggining that his winning streak of 23 fights unbeaten for almost 10 years

Cro Cop was not top 10 PFP at the time, as he wasn't even the #2 HW in the world (as he had lost to Big Nog less than 2 years prior. PRIDE billed it as the #1 vs. #2 HW, but Cro Cop was only #2 after Nog lost to Josh Barnett in the last OWGP (which he avenged shortly there after). Big Nog was #1 at HW, not pfp. No real PFP rankings even existed yet.



Now I'm just going to pick apart differnt parts of your argument:



"you should use some logic and realize they were obviously past their prime because of the wars they had at pride."



Maybe Nog (even though he won the UFC title his second fight in the UFC and was never stopped until he fought Mir), but definitely not Cro Cop. Mirko was the legitimate #2 fighter in the world when he entered the UFC. He had just won the OWGP, and stopped Barnett for a second time. He then immediately looked like crap against Eddie Sanchez, and then was blasted back to mediocrity by Gabriel Gonzaga (less than a year after the OWGP).



"5 years before they went to the UFC those 2 guys with fedor were top 3 HW and top 10 P4P."



5 years before Big Nog went to the UFC he hadn't even fought Fedor yet. 5 years before Cro Cop went to the UFC he was still a kickboxer dabbling in MMA.



"thats the real important thing... fedor at his prime fought much better competition than AS at his prime."



Going by your logic, yes. Going by reality, no.

Mauromina- First off, I analyze everything. You say Griffin was one of the worst champions the UFC has had, but you don't actually understand the fact that when he was champ he was very good. Bottom line, you don't beat Shogun and Rampage back to back if you suck. There was no generational change yet, Rampage challenged for the LHW title a few years later. Rua held the title a few fights later. This generational change you speak of didn't come about til sometime later.



I wrote out the rankings because, eventhough it was the worst division, it was on par with HW. HW while very popular, is filled with mediocre talent and always has been. There are the few guys like Nog, Fedor, JDS, Cain, Mir, and Crop Cop that can put everything together. But for the most part its big guys that are lacking in skills compared to their smaller counterparts. For instance right now JDS is the only PFP fighter there is, and he is very low on every list.



Do some research on a subject, and maybe actually watch the fights before you call me out.

Seriously, if I want to read that much I will brake out the Pride and Prejudice.

You are on fire tonight.

dude you dont have to take it literally... if i say 5 years it doesnt mean exactly 5 years. it means that when they fought fedor they were on the top. when fedor fought for the 1st time big nog maybe there wasnt a p4p liist but i can assure that he was the biggest thing in mma next to me. he won his last 13 fights before losing to fedor. who else if not was teh best on march 2003? wanderlei was 10/1/1 on his last 12 and chuck wasnt even the UFC LHW champion. when fedor fought crocop maybe there wasnt a p4p list also but you cant tell me 10 fighters on 2005 with enough merits for being ranked above crocop on a virtual p4p list.



now im just going to pick apart some parts of your argument...

You say Griffin was one of the worst champions the UFC has had, but you don't actually understand the fact that when he was champ he was very good. Bottom line, you don't beat Shogun and Rampage back to back if you suck.



again you are not showing any criteria here. that shogun that forrest fought was a disgrace and rampages game plan was really lame. im not saying forrest sucks but he isnt a brilliant fighter and is for sure one of the worst ufc champions (obviously the new ufc). also when im talking of a generational change im not meaning it of age (english isnt my 1st language) im meaning that there werent new contenders. for example when shogun beat chuck that was a new guy coming into contention. my point is that LHW division at that point was really lame.



you should answer with better facts and for example tell me 10 p4p fighters that were above crocop at 2005, a hotter fighter than big nog at 2003 and also tell me a couple of ufc champions that were really worst than forrest (from 2004 till now)!!! answer me those 3 things instead of writing 3 paragraphs of JDS

sorry it was only 1 paragraph... but a quite long one. just putting these in case you try to use it against me!

lol, nevertheless dont take anything personal this is a nice way of exchanging arguments

First off, you're doing fine. I can tell english is your second language, and your are conducting yourself very well. I, for instance, would be lost trying to converse in Spanish. I don't think I used any grammar (or anything of that nature) against you. If I did I apologize.



"if i say 5 years it doesnt mean exactly 5 years. it means that when they fought fedor they were on the top. when fedor fought for the 1st time big nog maybe there wasnt a p4p liist but i can assure that he was the"



No I understand that. What I am trying to point out is that the time frame you gave was a faulty selling point because the amount of time between their fights with Fedor (Nog's second) and their downfall was not that long at all.



"the biggest thing in mma next to me."



Nice sneak in. And you say English isn't your first language...pshhhh



"he won his last 13 fights before losing to fedor. who else if not was teh best on march 2003? wanderlei was 10/1/1 on his last 12 and chuck wasnt even the UFC LHW champion. when fedor fought crocop maybe there wasnt a p4p list also but you cant tell me 10 fighters on 2005 with enough merits for being ranked above crocop on a virtual p4p list."



I can understand that, but I would counter that points to how early the days of MMA really were. Nog might have been the best PFP fighter in the world at the time, but that time was nothing like even 3 years from then in the world of MMA.



As for Cro Cop 10 fighters being better than Cro Cop in 2005; here's an article from Josh Gross (one of the most circulated writers in MMA's short existence) http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/1/JG146s-Dirty-Dozen-151-A-PoundforPound-MMA-Ranking-3699



Now of course there's nothing factual about that, but its a good starting point. It also shows a guy Anderson beat above him.



Well, you're not really giving any analysis examples either. You're just saying Shogun looked like shit, and Rampage fought with a shitty game plan. Forrest was actually there too, and looked the best he ever did in MMA. He looked great in the early going against Rashad too, his chin just let him down there. After Anderson destroyed him he was never the same.



On your points about the division being really lame, I would have to adamantly disagree. Shogun, Wanderlei, Henderson, Rampage, machida, and even Sokoudjou entering the UFC (combined with Forrest and Rashad both coming into their own) made the LHW division one of the most competitive and exciting in MMA history.



"you should answer with better facts and for example tell me 10 p4p fighters that were above crocop at 2005, a hotter fighter than big nog at 2003 and also tell me a couple of ufc champions that were really worst than forrest (from 2004 till now)!!! answer me those 3 things instead of writing 3 paragraphs of JDS"



Well, on the Nog thing I will concede. He very well might have been the best PFP in the world at the time. On the Cro Cop thing I posted the article above. On the worst champions I'd personally go with Matt Serra, and Brock Lesnar but to each his own!

nice arguing with you sir! ill probably put serra and sylvia. for me brock is much worst than forrest as a fighter but i think he was more of a puzzle to solve for his division than forrest.



on the grammar thing dont worry, i know you didnt used it against me. i just was trying to make you understand that sometimes with me its hard to take things literally cause im trying to mean something a little bit different.



i love the discussion of who is greatest, fedor or AS and i think until now its really hard to tell. if AS retires unefeated with a couple of honorable adversaries or defeats jon jones or GSP i will 100% say he is the GOAT.

ill give you a new topic... i think that if AS fights Jon jones, jones will destroy him. and if jon jones fights a top 5 HW like junior, cain, overeem or an in shape brock lesnar he will get destroyed to. i will love to see jones fight werdum and AS fight rashad at 205.



i say it because i think that in the near future there are going to be huge discussions about those 2 scenarios on the mma sites

I agree in that Jones will destroy Anderson. I have said as much on multiple articles here at Lowkick. I think the size and wrestling advantage would prove too much.



However, I believe when Jones moves up he will be close to 250, and that will give him enough size to be successful.

Fedor may be the best HW fighter of all time, but Anderson Silva is the G.O.A.T

K i pretty much agree with this

Chael Sonen - medum rare - just the way HE *likes it* ... but seriously, diffrent era, diffrent organisation, diffrent fight game. It is clear that game surpassed Fedor now, but back in the days he was the game. UFC had nothing on Pride. Now a days it is a diffrent story. Glory to the both!

Totally agree. It's very hard to compare different era's. Tomorrow a different fighter will roll around and the debate will start again.

2morrow marciano is still greatest boxer of all time!



FEDOORERRRR!

Fedor beats Anderson, even today.

He wasn't out against henderson..he just tripped.

Are you sure? Pretty sure it was a flash KO.

nice try on the sarcasm

Lets start with this: i might be biased because AS is Brasilian but on the other hand Fedor and Big Nog are my fav fighters of all time so maybe that even things out....both man are finishers, both man have the heart of a Lion (chael fight and big foot fight), both man have amazing/crazy win streaks, in their prime they both had an aura of invencibility that won fights before the belt.....but the one thing in my opinion that sets Anderson apart is the way he finishes....it looks like something out of a movie, something not possible unless your are the chosen one, Anderson does things humas are not suposed to do...GOAT.

When Randleman slammed Fedor and Fedor getting the sub within a minute is amazing. I truthfully cannot think of anything more Rawsome than that.

cause anderson is in the matrix!!!!

I never liked this argument of P4P, Anderson/Fedor especially. Fedor went undefeated in Pride while Anderson went 3-2. There are good arguments for or against both of these guys. I wish people would let it go. I'm sadden that i'll never see Fedor fight again, i'm sure i'll feel the same for Hendo, Shogun, Silva and a few others.

All that matters is Fedor in his prime would of annihilated Anderson Silva. Case closed, Fedor is the GOAT

All that matters is that excuses for dan henderson losing soundly to silva were "omg he's sewwww old!!"



And then 4 years later he finishes fedor...whats up with that?



Here's what i notice the difference is. Andersons losses are against people that most don't consider good,fedors wins are against people that most think should retire today.



Why isn't fedor in his prime again? he's younger than silva, and since crocop in 05 he's been fighting like once per year in very short fights...

It is also interesting that Handerson was kinda on a downslide after Anderson, re-emerging a couple of years later while coincedently being on TRT. I'm not using this as an excuse, just point out certain things.



People are different, some people's "prime" could be a few years, for some it could be a decade, and a few rare one's it's more than that, plus throw in some TRT and they are back to having testosterone of a 20 year old. You never know when you will hit that spot.

u saying since hendo t(ko)ed fedor and silva tapped ot fedor silva would win?

Ok then. You would have been better off saying ringrust. Hendo gasses like it's fun now so basically if he doesn't win with "his big right hand" then he's done, NOTHING to do with TRT at all.



Then there's fedor and you expect us to believe that for no particular reason he's just "out of his prime" compared to an older fighter who fights more often.Funny how everyone else in pride seemed to need to go to the UFC to suddenly be...out of their prime.



Cept AS ofcourse.

Did you miss what i said. You never know when you are going to be out of prime, it's gradual, well at least it looks gradual. Fedor fought 4 times in 2011. only year he had one fight was in 09. A lot of pride guys that jumped into the ufc were really on their tale end of their careers, not including steroids that were so rampant in pride. No more steroids or at least you had to be careful otherwise you would be caught. And I actually don't think Fedor is out of his prime. I do think that he is on the tail end of it. I just don't think he cared all that much in the past few years. His own trainers have commented on him not working out as much, stopped using weights, fasting etc. To remain an athlete at top level you have to commit so much of your time. Honestly I don't know why I bother. I believe your name states it all.

Anderson is older than Fedor and was fighting in Japan same time with Fedor and loosing to the worst fighters with most embaressing losses 2 loses in the same card with Fedor were Fedor was the main ewent .Fedor was the best in all devisions in Pride if Anderson had balls he wuld of foght Fedor in Pride.We all now from Soarez Anderson walks 230 and fights 185 iw got no respect for fighters losing weight to fight small guys.Anderson can be the best in UFC not the best in the world. Hector Lombard got better record than him.in Pride 26 Takasse the worst fighter in the world with 10-13 when they foght he was 5-7-1 owned Anderson that time he was the best fighter from the Blackhouse gym.

were u get ur facts? 2 loses same card???? he hasnt even lost 2 in a row??

So anderson silva loses to bad fighters and wins convincigly to great fighters. Fedor wins to bad fighters and loses to upper midtier fighters.



Ok,that's what i thought the difference was.

Have a look at Fedors record http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedor_Emelianenko



Around 2004 he fought a few decent opponents. After 2004 he lost to Henderson, Werdum, Silva and almost Brett Rodgers.



Pedro Hizzo (long washed up)

Jeff Monson (again... way past his prime)

Arlovski (no chin, gets knocked out if you sneeze on him these days)

Tim Silvia (really?.)

He fought a couple of freak shows as well... not true competition... the giant/fat African dude... the true Giant Asian guy....

Mark Coleman... all juiced up and still pretty old.



So.... even though his fights were entertaining... how can he be considered the greatest HW of all time? Look at the guys record and competition.



The article mentions Pride rules were also less strict than the UFC which is true... but.... it also fails to mention somePride fights were fixed... and we will never know if any of Fedors were.



I'm not a huge fan of Anderson... but.... he has a legit history/legacy far and above what Fedor has accomplished IMO.



Go ahead... "Weak" all you want... but... Fedor was WAY overrated and his career a mixed bag of old dudes, circus freaks, and washed up fighters with a few quality people in the mix.



Hatch

Great points.

Dana Withe was saying his champions are fighting 3 times a year we dont see that very often all bulshit talking

How old are you that time tease fighters were the best Big Nog was like Superman befor he foght Fedor.In 2006 Frak Mir was fighting Brandon Vera in HW dewision UFC sucked that time still sucks just standing with Casino power destroying other organisations

The real best fight in The world right now is JDS not Anderson.Wuy Mochamed Ali is the best boxer of all time becose he was a HW.On the street the diference between Fedor and Anderson 5-10 pounds Anderson is a bit taller he culd fight in HW dewision if he had ball forget the HW wath about LHW he is a Booed Chicken and always be one

Muhammad Ali isn't the best boxer of all-time. He's just the most famous.

Ali is the G.O.A.T, sorry.

Ali is the GOAT to sports fans.



Sugar Ray Robinson is the best of all time to boxing fans. As are a few others above Ali.

Ali is the best boxer of all time and Tyson may be just as famous if not more

Tyson is no where near as famous as Muhammad Ali. He might be more infamous, but Ali is the best known boxer of all time and it ain't close.



Again, Ali is not he best boxer of all time.

BTW, GSP should definitely be a part of this conversation. IMO 5-10 years from now he would have already accomplished more than both.

Lmao.



Georges Safe-Pierre is a great fighter, but you can't be serious.

Very true. Consensus's shift so fast in MMA. If GSP comes back and has 1 or 2 impressive performances, he'll be in the conversation again.



On a side note, if GSP comes back healthy and has 3-5 years left of fights at his optimal levels, he could clean out the rest of WW and move up to MW and be successful.

Sure he can, he doesn't have to back up what he says, he just needs to say something popular.



Anyone remember what this site was like before fedor lost? Wow.

Back up what I have to say? Just google GSP, apparently you haven't heard of the guy who's beaten everybody he's ever faced and is working on a 9 fight win streak after having streaks of 6 and 7 already in his career.

GEORGE SAFE-PIERRE, HUGGIN NUT!!!! HUGGIN NUT!!!!!!!!

...You'd get butchered so badly for saying something that retarded in a forum where people can easily notice. You really....seriously....think that daiju takase, joker or ryo chonan have a chance of beating anderson silva today? WOW kid.



And silva had a 9 fight winstreak before his loss, currently on a 16 fight winstreak....not even taking into account the way that those fights went compared to GSPs...



But what kind of nerd knows how to count right? Like i said, just say something popular "lol anderson silva is a coward for not fighting overeem while blindfolded and handcuffed!" and no matter how mentally inept you are, you'll still be very very popular.

"...You'd get butchered so badly for saying something that retarded in a forum where people can easily notice. You really....seriously....think that daiju takase, joker or ryo chonan have a chance of beating anderson silva today? WOW kid."



People did notice. They weaked it. The difference between me and you is I don't bitch about it. I simply respond if someone would like to debate.



To the second part, please tell me where I said or even implied that Anderson Silva wouldn't beat any of the men you mentioned. I simply said that GSP has beaten every man he's ever faced. It appears you didn't have a good enough rebuttal to it so you changed the conversation. Typical.



"And silva had a 9 fight winstreak before his loss, currently on a 16 fight winstreak...."



Yes, and I never said he didn't. I simply pointed out that GSP has had great win streaks also. The part that should also be common knowledge is they came in a much harder division than 185 so they are little more impressive, but we all know your passionate defense of the division half the people on this page have called a joke.



".not even taking into account the way that those fights went compared to GSPs"



What about them? The fact that he has 3 stoppages, or the part about him losing 3 rounds at most in the last 9 fights (2 of which while fighting half blind).



"But what kind of nerd knows how to count right?"



Apparently you.



"Like i said, just say something popular "lol anderson silva is a coward for not fighting overeem while blindfolded and handcuffed!"



..or things like calling Georges St. Pierre "George safe Pierre".

if you're trying to bash anderson you'll never get weaked frequently here,so it's not like you have to face an army of imbeciles anytime you're trying to defend someone like i do.



If AS could easily accomplish that feat there's no point in harping about it like it's special is there? Especially when GSP has so many rematches to begin with,over your head as usual.



Since GSPs last lost he's fought koscheck twice,hughes for the 3rd time,serra for the second,penn for the second.Fitch penn and shields come from other divisions, that's not too impressive when you break it down that way. Kindof interesting that such a strong division produces so many rematches and has such a high rate of migration...it's like people think they'll be more successful there despite the fact that it's "harder"



Wooo 3 out of 9 isn't impressive but you have a tendency to flatter yourself so it's probably similar to your past test scores. And again 2 of those guys come from different divisions, and shields managed to badly damage GSP in standup despite having the skill of a rockem sockem robot.



He got 2 cools for calling GSP that, there you go not being able to grasp simple numbers again. respond to your other filibuster later as i see you've relied primarily on red-herring arguments there.

-That's bullshit. In fact, it's another example of a strawman argument you're trying to pass off as accurate when it is anything but. You're usually not facing an army of imbeciles, you are the imbecile. The problem is your just too much of a ****, and frankly way too young to realize it.



-I never pointed out Anderson's streak was easy. I pointed out that he competes primarily in a weight class that is historically weaker than 170 or 205 (which is a concept agreed upon by almost every long time writer or fan in MMA). However, you just can't seem to grasp it, but as you seem to be quite young its understandable.



-GSP has had so many rematches? What about Anderson SIlva? He's had two less in his UFC career. He's rematched Okami, Sonnen, and Franklin while GSP has rematched Koscheck, Penn, Serra, and Hughes (2x). I guess reality goes against what you base your opinions off of so I can see why you wouldn't think about it.



Also you made my point for me. If people migrating to the 170 division (where you overstate the amount) they'd have more success as a whole. They would actually be able to overtake guys spots there instead of losing out to guys already entrenched.



-Why do you bring up my test scores? We both know you don't actually do anything. You're a little snot nosed kid who doesn't grasp the full spectrum of MMA's history because you simply haven't been watching long enough.



To your other points, BJ and Serra have had success at 170 before (another factoid you'd know had you been around the sport longer). GSP fought Shields with one eye for over 3 rounds, it'd be hard to beat anybody in striking when that happens.



However, I like the fact you jumped past the whole he's lost 3 rounds in 5 years thing. Not really a decent rebuttal to it so good call on your part.



-I also got 2 weak's for saying GSP belongs in the same conversation. Did you miss that part, or did it just kill your whole point so you had to ignore it?



I'm not the one that keeps trying to change the subject in mid debate.

Yea that's bullshit, it's not like you can see an example of that every single time it happens...oh wait.



Who cares if it's "historically weak"? it's not NOW and that's what counts, cry more clown. Franklin was an ex champion it's understandable, like hughes. Sonnen rematch was because clowns like you actually thought he'd win.Okami rematch was again, cos clowns like you actually thought he'd win.



Koscheck and penn were fights that didn't need to happen at all on the other hand, there would be even more rematches if it wasn't for guys constantly migrating to the division. Who said BJ and serra hadn't been successful at 170? READ,COMPREHEND,RESPOND.



I don't do anything? I'm not the guy claiming to sit here all day and right books of impertinence to flood the screen. Nice excuse for GSP, go ahead and post the gif of where that happens, some other clone did before, but do it on another page when we continue this.



Yea he lost 3 rounds in 5 years, hugging anyone who can strike, jabbing anyone who can wrestle. OMG 2 weaks? Hate said silva was the GOAT and got like 14...sooo many examples on this page. There you go failing with numbers AGAIN. Deny it all you want i'm confident you'll keep on doing it.



I don't change the subject either, that's why i can post exactly what i said in the first place that got you all pissy pants.

-...yep still waiting...



-Anderson has been competing in the UFC's 185 lb division for over to 6 years. He's been competing against top 185ers since 2004. Hell, he was competing against top 170 lb fighters in 2001.



A discussion of the accomplishment in Anderson's career merits a dissection of the divisions he competed at.



Sonnen rematch was because he was the most deserving challenger (on top of completely dominating the first fight until a hail mary triangle subbed him out), and created the biggest box office opportunity. The Okami rematch was because he was the # 1 contender after beating Marquardt.



I already explained I didn't think Okami had a chance. Maybe capital letters work better for you; I THOUGHT ANDERSON SILVA WOULD BWEAT EVERY OPPONENT HE FACED SINCE RICH FRANKLIN IN THEIR SECOND FIGHT.



-Koscheck and Penn most certainly needed to happen. You know why, they sell. That's why fights are made, because they make combatants money.



There's also that whole point about the first fight between each being extremely close where Penn 1 could have been a draw with a 10-8 BJ first round (which I wouldn't agree with), and late takedown by Koscheck in the third round of their first fight could have given him a 29-28 win.



-No, you don't. You're a kid that may/may not be in college that writes a bunch of nonsensical information to try and look (or more likely) make yourself feel intelligent. Some other clone? Did you just learn that description because now you're just overusing it.



-OMG 2 weaks when the post was over 40 down the list of comments at the time? It's almost as if people don't scroll down that low, or *gasp* (sorry to steal your "material" again), more people comment on a page write after its written.



But I like the fact 2 cools is a basis for your conversation, but when I point out 2 weaks (which has apparently turned in to 3) it pails in comparison to 14.



-You've changed the subject this whole page. Even at the very beginning you took off from historically weak, and tried to turn it into "I'm just talking about now".



It's a troll maneuver, by a skilled troll.

Pride rules and modern mma rules allow different styles to be successful ,for instance if Silva Sonnen 1 was fought under pride rules Sonnens wrestling would not have been as successful due to the ropes .

To clarify ropes vs cage fighters could use the spring of the ropes to counter take down attempts.

On the other hand Bjj is not as effective a defence under pride rules and if Sonnen had been allowed to knee to the head of Silva whilst grounded in their first fight I think he would have finished..



The argument for Greatest of all time will never be settled but it is maybe better to say they are both greats of the sport as are Gsp ,Dan Henderson and many others.

I love to watch them all .

Considering that Silva weighs probably 205-210, and Fedor was a chubby 230ish for most of his career, they are essentially the same size. Anderson is the greatest MW of all time.



Since Fedor chose to compete with the big boys, I'm going to give him the nod.

Although there were a few great fighters he fought, he also had most of his time fighting easier fighters in terms of skillset. Like I said, Nog was his only fight that had the well rounded skills of the fighters Silva faced. Dan henderson was beaten by Anderson and Dan beat Fedor. Anderson would have had very few problems with guys like Tim Sylvia, Arlovski or Crocop. No doubt he is a great fighter but just because your fighting bigger guys does not mean better guys.

First of all there is not Greatest Of All Time since TIME is still running and the world has not ended....YET! There is not point in comparing.. Back in the day Pride had the best HW division and Fedor fought in that division arguably today the UFC has the best MW division and Silva is fighting in the division.. You can even compare the competition from this era to the previous era, it will all come down to who was your favorite fighter or who is your favorite fighter your comparing a Ferrari to a Lamborghini they are both great (and I can't afford them) it's just a matter of taste.

Lamborgini hasn't won anything in real racing, they are just posers. Just buggin. I agree best of all time past would be the proper understanding. I would argue the skills have gotten better and that Anderson is doing better at an older age in the new era of fighters and so is better IMO.

It amazes me how divided people are on this. Anyone with eyes can see that both of this guys have accomplishments that go WAY beyond the average sport legend. If Fedor in his prime fought Anderson in his, I wouldn't have any clue who would win. They are both utterly amazing.

Hate never heard of Fedor before joining this site...haha...and I used to read his coments...shame on me....go back to school kid and stfu!

atleast he admitted it, im sure there are others

Can't remember where I heard about Fedor but most likely was this site

Huge respect for both guys, the best two guys to ever fight.



I think the big thing is competition, Anderson has ruled a historically weak division but Fedor basically ruled organisation with some super talents but mostly wash outs.



Fedor's best wins were Nog and Cro Cop, most of the rest were past their prime, freakshows, smaller or just not great fighters.



Silva has beat Hendo, Sonnen twice, Belfort, Okami, Franklin, Maia, Griffin. All of these fighters were in their primes fighting Silva and are brilliant fighters in their own right.



I think Silva would beat Fedor P4P and even in a open weight match.





Both legends but I would definitely give the nod to Silva.

On the street Fedor and Anderson walk same weight the only diference is Fedor fights monsters Anderson fighths in kids devision we all now wuy becose got no balls with his running away chicken style

LOL!

If you ower 30 you now your prime is in your 20's.Anderson is winning becose 185 is weak in UFC keep fighting the same fighters.I wish Fedor vs Anderson hapened will all see Anderson going true meatgrinder

And the lose with flying scissor heel hook to Ryo Chonan you have to have chicken brain to lose like that

And who jumps into a BJJ blackbelts guard amirite?



I gotta hand it to you though, you're the only remaining fedornuthugger who isn't even pretending to be someone else.



In an odd way, i respect you for that.

Anderson Silva 28 yers old 9 winning streak Pride 26

Kazuhiro Hamanaka vs. Nino "Elvis" Schembri



Hamanaka defeated Schembri by unanimous decision.



[edit] Anderson Silva vs. Daiju Takase



Takase defeated Anderson Silva by triangle choke at 8:33 in round 1.



[edit] Mike Bencic vs. Alistair Overeem



Alistair Overeem defeats Bencic by Submission (Strikes) at 3:44 in Round 1.



[edit] Mikhail Illoukhine vs. Quinton Jackson



Quinton Jackson defeats Illoukhine, by submission due to knee strikes, 6:26 into Round 1.



[edit] Mark Coleman vs. Don Frye



Mark Coleman won a unanimous decision victory over Don Frye.



[edit] Mirko Filipović vs. Heath Herring



Filipović won by TKO at 3:17 in the first round after landing a hard liver kick and ground & pound.



[edit] Fedor Emelianenko vs. Kazuyuki Fujita

Pride Shockwave 2004

Stefan Leko vs Ikuhisa Minowa



Ikuhisa Minowa defeats Stefan Leko by submission (Heel Hook) at 0:27 of Round 1.



[edit] Mu Bae Choi vs Paulo Cesar Silva



Mu Bae Choi defeats Paulo Cesar Silva by submission due to an arm triangle choke at 5:47 of Round 1.



[edit] Yoji Anjo vs Ryan Gracie



Ryan Gracie defeats Yoji Anjo by submission due to an armbar at 8:33 of Round 1.



[edit] Ryo Chonan vs Anderson Silva



Ryo Chonan defeats Anderson Silva by submission due to a flying scissor heel hook at 3:08 of Round 3.



[edit] Henry "Sentoryu" Miller vs Makoto Takimoto



Makoto Takimoto defeats Henry Miller by decision.



[edit] Rulon Gardner vs Hidehiko Yoshida



In a battle between Olympic Gold Medalists, Rulon Gardner (wrestling) defeats Hidehiko Yoshida (judo) by unanimous decision.



[edit] Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipović vs Kevin Randleman



Mirko Filipovic defeats Kevin Randleman via guillitine choke at :42 of Round 1.



[edit] Dan Henderson vs Yuki Kondo



Dan Henderson defeats Yuki Kondo by split decision.



[edit] Takanori Gomi vs Jens Pulver



Takanori Gomi defeats Jens Pulver by knockout at 6:21 of Round 1.



[edit] Mark Hunt vs Wanderlei Silva



Mark Hunt (late replacement for Kazushi Sakuraba) defeats Wanderlei Silva by split decision. Bas Rutten, Mauro Ranallo and Randy Couture, the commentators from that fight, thought Wanderlei had won because of the weight difference and the yellow card given for Hunt.



[edit] Heavyweight Grand Prix Final



[edit] Pride Heavyweight Championship bout: Fedor Emelianenko vs Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira

Dan Henderson.Out of those 2 I pick Fedor.

Legacy of greatness characterized by achievements, the record shows..it's FEDOR.