Herb Dean explains Fedor vs. Henderson stoppage: "The fight is over when he's unconscious"

Amen. The voice of reason. We gotta get over it - Fedor lost again, in disturbing fashion... stop blaming Herb just because he stepped in and stopped it.

I agree....and as a Fedor fan, I am saddened to see him (possibly) exit the sport this way. I was screaming "early stoppage" on Saturday night, but in hindsight, the ref has to protect the fighter.



My only remaining gripe is that you see fighters in way more trouble and the fight goes unstopped. Fedor has proven over the years that he has a very good chin and excellent ability to recover quickly. I think if Herb had taken into consideration, we may have seen Fedor recover, protect himself enough to survive the round, and go on to the second round.



Different outcome? I dunno. I hope so, but we'll never know. And my distaste is that we should have been allowed to know. But no fault to Herb.

I disagree, Herb was already touching/moving Dan when he threw his last 2 punches and without Herb moving Dan, the punches would have put Fedor to sleep for good,



Dan was about to throw down vicious GnP and Fedor might have turned over, but his face would have taken all of the impact. If the fight went further we would see Fedor badly knocked out.



But if Chael Sonnen were to lose like that I probably would make excuses too to alleviate the heart break, so I dont blame Fedor fans....I guess

Perhaps.



The point is that we don't know. For all we know Fedor could have rolled over, threw an up-kick, pulled Dan's shorts down, stole his cup, and tied Herb's shoelaces together. It's unknowable. And while I doubt Hendo would have finished him right there w/o Herb's involvement, it's the stoppage (right or wrong) that leaves us wishing there had been a little more time given.

Naked, bro......Butt naked.

It was a great call, Herb Dean. You're still the best in the business.

The issue is that people get upset when they see Nick Diaz out cold twice in a fight and allowed to regain himself with no stoppage and then we see Fedor go out for a moment in a fight and its an instant stoppage. Its just inconsistent.

Sounds like there has been a recent improvement in refereeing.



Unconscious fighters have suffered brain trauma. To prevent mental impairment or death, a referee stops the fight.



Q. Would you like to walk around with the communicative abilities of Nick Diaz?

- He's a great fighter, but if he couldn't talk he would only be marginally less understandable than now.

True that, I had no idea why people were calling early stoppage on Diaz v. Daley. I said the stoppage was about 2 minutes late.

Lol

:)

i think we all saw Fedor go limp, he was clearly out and Dean recognized that. I don't see any premature stoppage there

Herb did a good job i like fedor alot still he went limp thats all it takes for a ref to stop the fight Fedor did recover fast that being said he was definitely unconscious ! Dan is a beast that uppercut was nasty and fedor did not see it coming !

I agree with his explanation completely. I've even said similar after watching the replays. He already was stepping in by the time Fedor turned over.

Hey if Herb makes the call, I usually don't dispute it, he knows what he's doing in there.

All of a sudden Herb makes sense? Most of you were bashing him prior to this. Thanks Herb, for clearing it up for these morons that don't have a clue about being in a cage or MMA in general. Like I said before, Dean is one of the best in the business, and you clowns need an explanation from him to realize he was right? Childish.

As a referee his job is to protect any fighter from any unnecassary blows, especially if he sees one of the competitors go limp, be it a KO or a flash KO, which is what we saw with Fedor when he face planted into the matt after taking one of Hendos uppercut H bombs. There's no question in my mind that it was a good stoppage, Fedor hadn't even recovered by the time they got him to his feet, he was staggering everywhere. I can't believe there is any debate at all over this, it's clean cut to me, the true MMA fans who adore Fedor actually agree and give Hendo props which is cool but some of the excuses a few are making now are ridiculous "it was stopped too early" "Hendo was punching him in the back of the head" "Fedor would have recovered" "he wasn't out" and that's just a few. Come on guys get real man, just accept it and let's move on.....: )

Herb did his job in there, nuff said.

whoever questions herb's judgement should be shot

Blah blah blah. I still think he could have stopped Dan since he was punching dead center the back of fedors head checked Fedor and if he was not out start it again. I don't understand how nobody saw the two or three power shots to the back of fedors head. Which are illegal.

Blah blah blah, man u must be blind or so totally biased up in Fedors nutsac so that you can't think rationally. Watch the tape, the first blow is on the right side of Fedors head, the ear actually and that is legal.

Now the second blow is the question, its a borderline blow BUT not because he wants it to be, but because Fedors head was turned by the force of the first blow. This blow hit in the back of the head, thats true...

But he could punched from 12 to 6 blows on the back of Fedors head and neck, but he didn't...

The third blow is a hammerfist to the left of Fedors face, not to the back of his head( legal blow)... Now the rest of the punches a pulled because Herb Dean has stepped between them.



Now if u are bitching about that 1 punch because your little precious Fedor lost thats too bad. But it doesnt change the fact that he lost, pure and simple.



It was 1 blow that was borderline illegal NOT 3 blows, and ref has to make split decisions and with blows to back of the head they usually let it slide IF it was blow that became a blow to back of the head because of movement from a fighter. That blow was illegal BECAUSE that Fedors head moved/changed position of the force of the first blow.

It WAS NOT an intentional illegal blow that was 12 to 6 and u Fedor nuthuggers and crybabies have to grasp the fact that his days are over!!!!

He was one of the greatest, and put together the greatest winning streak in MMA history, maybe of all combatsports...

And it will probably never be repeated again, because the quality of the opponents is much higher now.



I hope that that will give you some comfort when you go back to your beds crying at night, but if doesn't. Don't come back here and whine about it like little girls!!!!!

You sound like a twelve year old. Those were two illegal unintentional shots. Just like nut shots, or eyepokes. You are the dumb ass. Jones was dq'd for an unintentional elbow. The real problem is a lack of cohesive rules. In boxing the ref would check on the fighter and break up the figt for illegal shots. Mma needs to get it's shit together with rules, refs, and judging. Many fights in this exact situation during mma are allowed to continue or reset after checking on an opponent. It does t bother me at all Fedor lost. Hendo was my favored fighter here. What matters was the underlying agenda I imagine was present. It's no secret Dana wants Fedor gone. It's no secret Fedor has made more money than any other mma fighter, has put himself in ownership positions of marketing companies, apparel, and distribution rights. There is a definite motivation to have him fail. Before other fighters get any bright ideas.

Haha, and you sound like conspiracy retard.



There are plenty of footage to go through and there you see quite clearly that only one blow hits the back of the head.

And it wasn't that that put him limp, facedown on the mat either....



The first thing that happens if somebody gives a blow to back to the head in boxing is a verbal reprimand, by the way. Not time to recover...



But it appareantly it doesn't matter how much footage there is, because some people can't accept facts, and look for other thing to blame, just as you are doing.

Keep looking for you conspiracies instead of being non-biased and really look at what happened in the fight.



Man, I don't even get upset by your bitchy remarks or pathetic tries to be insulting, because clearly you aren't the smartest guy/girl on the block...

@movescamp- Uhhh. No, Jones' illegal elbow to Matt Hamil's face was totally intentional. No one sits on top of someone and throws and elbow straight down at the floor, and didn't realize they were doing it. He just thought he could get away with it, or didn't like the rule. Or just got carried away. But either way, it wasn't the same thing as when a fighter on bottom moves, and causes you to land a shot on the back of his head.

oh, falling back on the old "conspiracy" excuse now are we because every other excuse has been refuted. The only one who sounds like a twelve year old and a dumb ass here is you my friend. So...ok....it's Danas fault that Fedor got KO'd because Dana wants him gone because he's worried about, apparel, distribution rights, ownership positions of marketing companies and how much money Fedor has made.....(ROFL)....(sigh).....i hope you realise how ridiculous you sound but thanks for brightening up my day anyway, i laughed so much my sides hurt.........: )

Your right there is plenty of footage and it clearly has hendo landing two strong illegal punches to an area of the head that is illegal.



In boxing a flash ko or a stun or knockdown gets 10 seconds. But that's besides the point. However if in boxing you corset three two punches to the back of an opponent completly turned around (not little jabs in a clench) you would most likely be disqualified or separated and re started.



Maybe you need a diagram and the footage to show you where he was hit. Or better yet link me the magic footage you have of Fedor being hit on the side of the face and maybe the back of the head. Your full of crap kid. Then show me the magic footage of Fedor stand up really wobbly.



I can link you probably five Fedor fights where he comes back fromthe exact same situation. It was a hasty call. It wasn't a choke or sub it could have gone on.

No, you can't link to me 5 different Fedor fights where he went LIMP!!!!!!

U can link me to fights were he was in trouble and hurt, or slammed on his head BUT NOT LIMP....



And if you want to see the"magic footage" just watch the whole replay, and watch closely when the show it from the right angle..

That is from over the right side of Hendos shoulder.



There you see VERY clearly that the first blow is on the right side of the head,actually the right ear of Fedor. The second blow is on the back of the head due to movement of Fedors head and is borderline illegal and the third is a hammerfist to the left side of Fedors face(also legal)...



So maybe its YOU who needs a diagram and also walking through of rules and the enforcement in rules.



And if you want to site boxing rules here fine.

Here goes it goes.

Blows to back of the head or low blows are followed by verbal warnings and if repeated points will be deducted, after that disqualification.

Now if he is hurt initially by a low blow or to the back of the head, then they give him up 5min to recover. But NOT if the blow that put him on the floor was a legal one.

And watch the replay, Fedor is also hitting Dan to the back of the head, and guess what?! No warning or 5min recovery there either. Why because it wasn't intentional and didn't cause the initial damage.

Yes, he did it in the scramble when Fedor put him down just moments before, and i don't see you complaining about those blows....

So that shows how much of this concern of yours isn't for illegal blows BUT more for that Fedor lost....



Now if Fedor had been knocked down and LIMP by a blow to the head, then guess what... You would be right, but the blow to the back to the head was o follow-up punch, it was NOT the punch that put Fedor on the mat face down and LIMP.... Right then and there the fight is over, end of discussion... Herb Dean made his call and it was the right one too.



So enough of this crap!!!!

You blatantly disregard facts(or you maybe you are halfblind, in wich case you should keep your mouth to begin with) and appareantly don't know the rules, and how they are enforced in boxing OR MMA.



It wasn't a hasty call, there were 3 more blow directly after the hammerfist to left side of Fedor face that was BLOCKED BY HERB DEAN!!!!! He saved Fedor from a devastating ko, and you have probably never been in a either a ring or a cage for you to talking like you are. You should thank him instead.

For being a fan of Fedor you show very little concern for his wellbeing, by the way...

Haha, you're right.

I got really annoyed and got carried away with it:)

@Ramiro - There's just NO telling some of these guys, the excuses i've heard range from "Fedor would have recoverd" right through to "its a conspiracy because Dana wants Fedor out" (see above) they just don't want to know. It's beyond ridiculous now it really is, makes me laugh though...lol.....: )

@terra2805- Yeah, i'm through trying to talk some sense into his thick skull. Soon the conspiracy will be tha Dana bought Herb Dean or something. Some people just want to ignore the facts and focus on little detail, BUT they miss the whole picture instead.

Sure, low blows are illegal but i flatten somebody out with right to the jaw and one of my follow-up punches catches in on the nuts. They don't stop the fight to recover from it(especially if it was the first time it happaned in a fight), it wasn't that punch that put him on the floor. They might give him a verbal warning no to do it again but that's about as far as it goes. Now, if if the nutshot put him on the floor to begin with, then thats another thing.

U can't reason with some people, don't know why.

It's a little sad bit to see how somebodycan so totally biased and don't look at the fact and the whole picture.

One of favorite boxers is Evander Holyfield, i think he WAS awesome in his time and day. But not anymore though, and i admit it.

Some people can't, but you're right. At least it gives us something to laugh about... :)

You guys are pretty funny keep your zuffa shirts.

I actually won $300 from this fight and had hendo winning. I am not blind or what ever. You have no idea what you are talking about via boxing. Or the footage of the fight. I have the whole thing and have a friend working on a gif to show you dumb asses these strikes as well as the ones you refer to of Fedor hitting hendo in the back of the head.



Not the matters since it's the Internet but I have been in cOmbat sports for 10 years. I train bjj and muay Thai and wrestle.



I love hendo he is in my top 3 fighters of all time which Fedor is not a part of.



I just want to express this call was hasty.

It' really is that simple.

In hindsight I believe the stoppage was the correct outcome even if Fedor could bounce back as they couldn't safely allow every fighter that luxury for lack of a better word.

From the angle it looked he was being punched in the back of the head but he wasn't so just accept that the ref did his job. Above all I thought it was a good call to stop the fight

if the ref doesnt stop the fight in theese kind of situations we will soon have a death ocurring in mma, and that would be really bad for the sport. everybody saw that he faceplanted the floor uncounsious so there is not so much to talk about. as a fan you may think that its some kind of robot war but at the end of the day they are human beings inside the cage....

Herb Dean is an awesome ref first of all. Fedor did go limp I watched the end of the fight mulitple times and he went limp. Fedor lost!!!!!!!!

The fact is these guys go in there and consent to getting punched. I think they'd all tell you they'd rather take that extra two or three seconds of punishment and be given a chance to respond. Whilst you have to draw a line and say 'enough is enough' the problem here was that the call was made so quickly. It was a micro-knockout, Fedor went to sleep and was instantly back in it.



Herb didn't make a mistake, maybe the rules should be clarified or altered though. Herb stepped in cos he thought Fedor was 'out'. He wasn't out cold, he could have probably continued. The point of stepping in when someone goes limp is the presumption that they are incapacitated and won't be able to defend themselves from there on in. The fact is that's not always the case when someone goes limp. It's a fine line to draw but I think Herb should have waited an extra few seconds before making his move. I know fighter safety has to come first but at the end of the day these guys are rational agents who I'm sure would all consent to taking a few extra punches to be given that chance.

Did you just use Whilst?

Sorry joefacehood, gotta disagree wiv you. Your comment was that you had a gripe as you had seen fighters in " way more trouble" before and the fights go unstopped.

Never in mma history have i ever seen someone out cold, faceplanted, and arse up in the air, recover, and be able to compete in the rest of the fight.

Herb Dean is the best ref in the whole of mma, and has proven his ability thousands of times. its a real shame to see him be scrutinised over a very reasonable decision purely on the fact he was judging a fedor fight and fedors fanboy`s are kicking up a stink. If it was anyone else fighting the decision he made would have been deemed to be a good one.

imagine if herb did not stop that fight too early... maybe fedor is in a casket ryt now...

it was a good stoppage.. herbs job is to protect fighters with unneccesary shots when he is slightly knocked out or what ever you call it..

F#$%^&* Herb Dean,best ref my ass,gtfo you fool!!!

Sounds like someones putting alcohol on those cuts you cut in your arm when the fight was ended, Herb made the best choice get over it.

Sounds like you are a douchebag,oh that's because you are one!

First off I love hendo. I respect him more than I do Fedor. I think he has tested himself more and is an even more accomplished version of Randy. I had no care as to who won this fight. In my opinion it would have been great either way.



For the drama queens talking about death in mma get out from behind your computer and play a sport. Crap like that happens all the time. Is it bad...could be. Remember what these guys are doing? Fighting.



Being stunned is not the same neurological condition as being knocked unconscious.



It wasnt a totally stupid call but herb got caught in the moment when there was a better solution. How many times does a red stop the fight to check on a cut? Or a nut shot or an illegal elbow jones.



It gives a chance for him to check on the fighter.



To the guy who says Dan hit him legally watch the tape again bud. A shot inthe back of the head in more neurologically damaging than any elbow north south that jones was dq for.



I don't care if Fedor loses he is not my favorite but I don't have herb nuts in my mouth. You guys sound like you were hypnotized.



For all you guys talking about Fedor wabling I hope you were in Chicago. There was no footage of him standing up ( I assume because he was close to fine I get wobbly after rolling in bjj for a while and that is not punching at all).



Anyone who knows Fedor knows he rebounds very fast. It was a poor call and that isthe reason we are talking about it. If it wasn't herb wouldn't need to say a word.



Sorry not going to put herbs nuts in my mouth. Good refs make dumb calls all the time. Usually public statements come out of guilt.



It wasn't totally ridiculous but it was hasty

Dude which part of "KNOCK OUT" dont you understand.. he was OUT.. eyes rolled in the back of his head OUT... like Herb says "I can't predict how long he's going to be unconscious" !! In this sport you don't take chances... Health comes first !! There's rules to this shit and the Ref is there to enforce them period... If Herb didnt stop the fight, he wouldn't be doing his job! Let the man do his job !!

you try and neutralise yourself by saying your not a big fan of Fedor when you SO obviously are, and your right, you don't have Herbs nuts in your mouth, that's 'cos there's no room for them with Fedors in there. Try watching the replay with the commentary switched on and you will clearly hear Frank state that Fedor is still wobbling everywhere when lifted to his feet, God.....do you fanboys need an explanation for everything. These excuses are getting lamer and lamer. oh, i like your fancy words though, like "neurological" bet you had to spell check it first, right............get a grip man, Fedor got flash KO'd and was still in cuckoo land when he came around and was NOT intelligently defending himself....period......: )

It's pointless to argue with twelve year olds. Being a vet and training I can tell you Fedor was not unconscious. He was dazed. If he were on his feat it would have looked exactly like Diaz vs Daley. For all you dumb asses I gurantee in the next 2 years there will be rules put in place to allow the fight to continue and check on the fighter when this happens and the fighter on top gets reckless or in the moment. Which is how jones got dq'd for a much less neurologicaly damaging blow.



Again I don't have fedors nuts in my mouth, I had hendo winning. Just not like that.

Ok Herb,. Since when is back of head LEGAL. I guess we need to cue up Machida and Segall video. Segall should be a ref.

Those strikes were IRRELEVANT !! Herb stepped in to stop the fight after the FIRST knock out punch !! Dan was just in the zone and didnt even realize the fight had been stopped u could see Herb tap Dan on his shoulder to let him know it was a WRAP! then he came in between which is when Fedor turned over... at this time the fight had already been stopped! Before he turned...

there were TWO BIG SHOTS to the back of fedors head (when he was out for a second). what about that?

oh...you mean he hit him on the back of his head AFTER the fight was stopped? well...THATS ok of course hahaha.