I agree with Barnett 100 percent. And he's right about Lesnar and Carwin not surpassing Fedor yet. UFC fans like to talk about Lesnar and Carwin etc cause they're bigger guys, the new breed but we have to wait and see if Carwin or Lesnar can beat Cain JDS etc decisevely before calling them legends like Fedor.
The fight on sat doesnt determine shit, its pure marketting.
I bet on Carwin being a p4p in the future if he goes past Lesnar and the rest of em.
Reply 4 years ago
Yeah. But what irritates me is that they (Cock 'n Carwin) are not a new breed though. There was plenty of guys in Pride who was well over 265 and accomplished in their field. Barnett himself used to walk around at 265+. Tim Sylvia is 300+ and got beat by Randy. Schilt, Sapp, Hunt, Kharitonov... Mark Coleman was above 265 in his Pride days...
Imo we're regurgitating history with a new breed of fans and new breed of hype, insensitive to reality or proven fact due to sheer ignorance. The fighters we've seen before and it hasn't changed all that much. The difference is that old heroes have become old - like the old Ali, the old Foreman, the old Holyfield, the old Tyson, the old Toney... etc... It happened to Chuck and it happened to Randy - so why can't or shouldn't it happen to Cro Cop and Nog?
It's pure marketing, indeed. The UFC/Dana is pissing on the legacy of MMA for shady PR and it stings that the WWE devotees and republi**** mud slingers couldn't give a ****. They are the reason why fighters would rather grind out a victory instead of gunning for the glory, respect and pride.
There is no honor in UFC MMA... None. They bought a very successful franchise in Pride with a fanatic fan base and went from Mickey Mouse/below Strikeforce to what they are today. They haven't built shit - they've destroyed shit and claimed their land.
That is what I thought too. People kept calling it a fact that carwin vs lesnar determines the top mma hw when that is probably not true. You would have to look at it from the most unbiased stand point in order to say that.
Brock has 4 fights. Who has he fought? Frank Mir? THATS IT! how can he be #1?
I thing you can split them up into a few tiers
t1 brock,carwin fedor, cain, jds.
t2 mir, bignog, overeem, werdum
t3 and 4 and below-silva (bigfoot), crocop, arlovski, tim silvia, congo etc
With strikeforce- they're making a real mess of how you get a shot at the title - doesn't make any sense
It is fact based on the rankings is all I meant, however if you have the rankings differently then that changes. Basically, what I was trying to say is that the #2 ranked heavyweight has become #1.... You yourself acknowledged that this is how sport-rankings worked. Its not something that I made up to favor any one fighter.
I never acknowledged that the #2 was now #1 or inferred it if you read my posts. But I do agree that it is a possibility. It all depends on the rankings of fedor, werdum, and #2 spot.
Your comment was:
"I once remember saying werdum is now #1 hw, but I realized when it comes to rankings it doesn't work out like that. The most accurate way to rank fighters is by the ELO rating system which is used by many professional sports."
You are correct, you never directly said that the #2 guy becomes #1, however you did acknowledge that there was likely to be a new #1, so with that in mind, if not the #2 guy then who were you implying should now be #1? Obviously not Werdum by your own statements....
Either way, it is fact that whomever was ranked #2 became #1 when Fedor was defeated by Werdum, who was arguably #10... It is just simply the way rankings work. Of course, who belongs where is not something that I care to debate.
The only thing I "acknowledge" in the first sentence is that I disagreed with myself that werdum was #1 from learning more about unbiased ratings. Now your just making connections within my statement that simply do not exist. Your implying with no context clues from my statement what so ever. The way your assuming things it can go either way.
And once again SUC, it is not a fact, but a possibility. None of us have crunched the numbers and if someone has please do share. Don't forget to give "several reliable" resources using the most "unbiased" rating system. Thx u.
It is fact that the #2 man in the rankings would become #1.
Not a fact if nobody knows the unbiased rankings, but if someone does then your right. It is a fact. Or do you need a math equation to understand why your statement might be wrong?
And when I say someone does, I mean they know the unbiased rankings and the guy who was #2 before became #1.
I dont understand where you are going with this? Not to mention ur odd comment about a "math equation" haha... What does bias have to do with anything I have said.... Bias would be something to consider when actually ranking fighters, which has absolutely nothing to do with anything I said here.... In fact, I believe I said very clearly that I do not care to debate who goes where in the ranks. So the actual function of the ranks, how they work, how they operate, is in no way affected by any bias... Furthermore, there is no math equation that is relevant to the subject UNTIL you start ranking the actual fighters themselves, which again I have not touched upon.
However though, when u DO start factoring in the numbers and ranking the fighters, being that no top ten heavyweights have fought since the Fedor fight, its safe to say that the only numbers that have changed are Werdum's and Fedor's. With that in mind I think it is safe to say that the guy who held the #2 spot before that fight still has higher numbers than the guys who held 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10.....
SUC, in order to know whether fedor ranking dropped to 2. You would need to know how high his rating is, what #2 rating is, and werdum rating is. So no, it isn't safe to say fedor ranking changed. His rating definitely changed though =)
I didn't say anything about you being biased in my last 2 posts. Ratings can be affected by biased stuff. But, okay lil buddy...
Haha you stole my "Lil' Buddy" line!! That is what I call you!! I am sorry tho, I wasnt understanding what was motivating you... I should have known it was Fedor. I didnt realize that you felt Fedor was still #1
Well now that is what I call you. I don't know if fedor is #1. Once again, all I am saying it is still a p o s s i b i l i t y his ranking still hasn't changed. He has accomplished a lot and I wouldn't be surprised.
Have you ever played GO or Chess?
Yea I understand what you are saying now, for a second I thought u were crazy... My point was only IF the #1 guy drops in rank... Of course if Fedor has not dropped, then my point does not apply. Lil' Buddy!!
Most of those fighters were not athletic at those weights. Good call on Coleman though. He basically was Lesner. Roughly the same size, build and style.
Finally a guy who knows MMA!!! Few and far between on this site.
Brock's a different class from all the others. . Can't see anyone getting up once he takes you down. You may aswell have 500lb aligator on you. You can wriggle and squirm as much as you like. All that happens is you gas out or succumb to strikes/subs. There's nobody else i can think of past or prsent with that ability. It's not purely a weight thing either. It's pure power and wrestling skill combined with weight and athletic ability.
The mentality that outside the ufc there are not good fighters is stupid, do you belive in everything Dana says. We all know he is a duche by now, especially after yesterday's statements. Steroids apart Barnett was always a very good fighter, besides Overeem, Kharitonov, Silva, Rogers, Cruz, King Mo, Mousasi, Filho, Lombard, Shields, Gono, Kawajiri, Diaz, Aoki, Melendez, Hasen, Alvarez and I can number some more but I' m boring enough so I will stop....
i agree styles do make fights
Remember what this fighter said once in inside MMA? *) percent of fighters take steroids at one point, whether its for injury recovery or enhanced pref like Josh. Josh took too much and didnt clean it out his system on time i guess.
are you for real? you are surprised he was caught. they will nearly all be on it. They know that title fights get tested and some other randoms on each show but they clean their systems by then and there are not random tests. look at all the fighters who have been caught and how do you honestly think that some guys drop from a musclely 240 pound and start fighting at 205. They dont just cut weight, they cut the roids. i know someone personally who is starting out and cut his roids out. he went from over 100kgs down to 93. Dont believe its extra training and diet. shamrock-barnett-sylvia-vitor-sherk- the list goes on and on and always will. next you will be saying wtf about brock taking stuff!!
80 percent or so.
100% agree with Barnett.
Well said Josh, well said indeed... ;-)
I'd love to see a debate between Barnett and Dana.
who cares about josh barnett
most of the mma fans
Looks like you do
I wanna see Barnett fight again, never mind the roids, he should still be in the top 10. Nobody talks about him but he can defiantly do some damage in UFC.
This was, probably, the most comprehansive interview so far among all other. I agree, whatever is said about Carwin or Lesner, they are not even close to accomplish what Fedor has.
I agree with josh in this video. he knows what hes talking about. Dana, you can try throw your bullshit too us but people arnt stupid. sure we love ufc....but we still have a brain. Saying brocks near the top of the heavyweights is laugh worry....atleast right now, hes had 5 fights..... theres no looking past that.
Does anyone have a list of guys the LEGEND beat? Over the hill and has-beens aside who in their prime has he beat in the top five?
he beat nog twice who was in his prime, beat colaman twice 04+06, he beat cro cop in his prime.randleman, schilt, ex ufc heavyweight champs in big tim and arlowski.
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